Hanson????

[quick]

Well, what is wrong with Tommy?

In the CWS game, it appeared Sox hitters were hanging over the plate, taking away half of the strike zone. Yesterday it didn't look the same to me.

My take was his slider is starting almost off the plate, finishing way off the the plate, and therefore is not teasing anyone into swinging (TV commentators said as much). He rarely throws his curve. Therefore, batters can "sit" on his fastball, which is a fine pitch but it doesn't seem to have much late movement.

Some of this is characteristic of someone who is not trusting his stuff. If you have great slider, you can start it over the middle of the plate and break it to the black and down on righties--all but unhittable and still a called strike, or very close--too close to take. Same pitch can go under a lefties hands. You don't want the pitch to hang and spin belt-high, but if you keep it down, you should be fine, especially when you have a good slider like Tommy's.

And Tommy's curve does get some called strikes, but he won't use it. I saw him use it twice yesterday.

Well, what do you think? Are these last two starts just an aberration or is there more to it? Can he do more to "jazz up" his fastball?

[bravos4evr]

toooo much MMMM Bop maybe ? :-)

[Freddy_Ballgame]

Is that you and your boys, Nick? Just kidding, just kidding....
The way Hanson is struggling of late, he may be the odd man out. KK pitched really well last time out and Medlen has been good routinely. Perhaps some time in the pen will help Hanson figure it out...

[Andy G.]

I wouldn't even consider it, Freddy. It's not like he's consistently bad. He's given up two earned runs or less in eleven of his sixteen starts. He's had three starts in which he pitched nine innings and given up twenty two earned runs. His numbers are skewed by the fact that his bad starts have been really, really bad. There's no need for him to work things out in the bullpen. No need at all.

[Freddy_Ballgame]

No need? Have you seen the dude pitch recently? Looks like he's pitching with a borrowed arm! The stats I'm most interested in are over those last two terrifically bad outings. Could be nothing more than the ol' sophomore jinx, but it's alarming to me. I think he looks like he's lost confidence in his stuff. It could be that he's tipping his pitches because too many times hitters looked like they were sitting on pitches and then crushing them. Maybe just missing a start would get him back on track. I don't want to see him get to the point of being tentative.

[Andy G.]

You really think that because he had two bad starts in a row, there must be something wrong with him? He's twenty three, and this is his first full season. There's no need cause for alarm right now. He's still a beast.

[Freddy_Ballgame]

I think what I saw must've been some bestiality then! Two starts as bad as those should indicate a problem. I'm not talking hammerin' the panic button but using some caution and giving the guy a chance to step back, look at what he was doing and try and figure out what went wrong. He seems to be throwing a lot of flat pitches and is wild in the strike zone. A missed start may be all he needs. I do trust the team to do what's best for him. They don't dick around with studs like that.

[Hobbes]

You generally don't put a starter in the pen to fix their problems.

[quick]

Originally Posted by BarveFanHawaii

Hey guys...I'm not going to try and interject into the conversation much, but I'm looking at the pitch types from the last two games...and I kind of notice a pattern.

Whenever Hanson has gotten into trouble the last two times out....he's gone to his entire arsenal to try and get through it. It's a little different than what I proposed earlier...but it could also be a bad thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have always been under the assumption that Hanson's bread and butter are the slider and his fastball. His curve and change are also nice pitches...but if there are two pitches that define why Hanson can be so dynamic, it's a stellar fastball and a dominant slider.

I don't know. Maybe they teach guys to go to their 3rd and 4th pitches in tight spots higher up in college, minors and majors...but I've always gone to my bread and butter to get the outs I need in a tight spot. Sure...I could've gotten outs with my circle change and my cutter...but I got far fewer outs with those pitches in big spots than I did my curve.

Maybe it's completely the opposite? Maybe Hanson relies so heavily on his fastball and slider early in games that by the time he gets to the 4th inning, the 2nd or 3rd time through the order, he has no choice by to go to his weaker pitches for outs and he's simply not getting lucky or not executing well.

It doesn't mean he's not confident in his stuff....perhaps he's overconfident in one light to go to his other stuff in big spots. Perhaps he's not confident in his other pitches to not use them earlier? If so...it may be with good reason. He might even just be frustrated, like I said, with struggling for the first time in what is probably several years at least.

Again...correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not like he's gotten shelled his last two times out. From what I recall...the Tigers had some 16 singles in the game. Hanson got dinked and dunked all day. Of the 13 hits he allowed against the ChiSox...only 2 were for extras. Again...dinked and dunked for the most part. I'll go out on a limb to say no one has ever been able to string hits together like that on him (even if they are only singles) and I would bet the kid is frustrated with it.

I don't think he needs a bullpen stint to correct his issues...McDowell just needs to figure out whether Hanson's fallen in love with his primary two pitches or if he is too confident in his secondary stuff. Either way...Hanson needs a little more focus on pitching. From the way his pitch sequences read...it looks like he's just throwing lately.

Of course, the catcher is calling the game; I don't see Hanson shaking off the catcher, so is it McCann's problem? I don't know, but possbily Mac's gotten into a certain comfort zone with certain of Hanson's pitches.

Also, I do believe the slider is just being started too far out of the zone. He needs to start it down the middle, looking fat and pretty, and let his fine stuff bend it down and to the left--trust it. He may be being, functionally, a one-pitch fastball pitcher: his slider prompts no one to swing; his curve he rarely throws; and even his change isn't getting much use and he seems to leave it too far down to really tease hitters.

I was ready to go with Hudson and Hanson for two games each in a 5 game series--now, I am not so sure about Hanson.

[RiknTN]

Originally Posted by quick

Also, I do believe the slider is just being started too far out of the zone. He needs to start it down the middle, looking fat and pretty, and let his fine stuff bend it down and to the left--trust it. He may be being, functionally, a one-pitch fastball pitcher: his slider prompts no one to swing; his curve he rarely throws; and even his change isn't getting much use and he seems to leave it too far down to really tease hitters.

BINGO !!

Needs to trust his stuff better......they sit on his fastball lately

[warefreak]

All I know is I'm concerned. We need Tommy to be Tommy to stay in it this year. He might need to skip a start, look at some film... SOMETHING, but it looks like the opposition as got him figured out. It's time to make some adjustments himself.

[wordslayer©]

*not a stats inspired post*

It never seems like good pitchers really have problems with their mechanics.

Can bad pitchers have good mechanics? Wonder why good mechanics won't make a bad pitcher good? Wonder why horrible mechanics don't make good pitchers bad?

I think that pitchers just sometimes suck----even good pitchers. I bet Steve Carlton or Tom Seaver have strung together some pretty $hitty games.

I really think that young, good pitchers can sometimes suck.

If a great pitcher is sucking for any length of time then it's probably due to his fighting through an injury or something.

I know that players themselves believe that they are good OR bad because of their mechanics, or because of the way they stand, their arm angle, or any number of things, but if the truth is probably known, it's probably just a confidence issue, or just the natural ebbing and flowing of good game/bad game occurrences. Coping mechanisms in the fragile ego of the athlete are pretty powerful, I would think.

[bravos4evr]

Well true BFH but when i was closing games my junior year (my best year prior to my injury) I gave up 3 HR's all year, in 3 straight games!!! (in fact I only gave up 8 in three years 4 my first year , 1 the second and those 3) I have no idea why my fastball wasn't moving... but it was just sitting there dead flat for those three games.... It could just be a string of bad luck. Heck I remember Maddux having a few bad games in a row before.

[Andy G.]

It's like a few guys have said. He had a few couple of bad games. It is an overreaction to say that anything is wrong with him. Three starts ago he pitched against Tampa Bay and threw seven innings with no runs, three hits and one walk. I just can't believe that we're talking about something being wrong with him, other than the fact that he's had a few games this year where he's pitched very poorly. It's not a consistent thing at all. He's been great the majority of his starts. This is all a little confusing, I must say.

[IkeWagner]

I watched his whole start against the Sox, and a thought that popped into my head was that he might be tipping his pitches. Probably not be the most likely explanation, but when a pitcher with great stuff has hitters all over him like that (even if location and pitch selection are not the greatest), one begins to wonder whether the opposing team has caught onto something.