General Atlanta Braves Discussion Thread

[Chris_Moderato]

I figured I'd set up this thread for general discussion that doesn't require it's own thread and doesn't fit into the existing discussions.

On that note, I'd like reference this podcast that I frequently listen to. These guys aren't professionals or anything, they're fans like the rest of us. This week that had a very interesting discussion with Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus. They discuss Francoeur, Bobby Cox, Jordan Schafer and more. Worth a listen.

ABT Goldstein Interview

[wordslayer©]

was reading some old Bill James and saw this quote of his and found it interesting:

“If a manager is successful, he changes the needs of the organization. By so doing, he often makes himself obsolete....Any manager, over time, loses the ability to see what needs to be changed.”

[Hobbes]

Originally Posted by wordslayer

....Any manager, over time, loses the ability to see what needs to be changed.”

This applies in any organization, not just sports teams.

[Chris_Moderato]

I really liked the Goldstein comment on the podcast that Bobby Cox is the kind of manager that makes a good team better and makes a mediocre team worse. The reality of his career, especially the past few seasons, seems to really bear that out.

[Lauren T.]

Originally Posted by Hobbes

This applies in any organization, not just sports teams.

I wish I could send this to one of the senior managers here at work. It's especially true in his case!

[BigWorm]

Top of the 8th inning in the All-Star game and still no McCann. What a ficking joke. Fick you ugly ass Charlie Manuel, you dumb country bumpkin.

[wordslayer©]

My thoughts on Bobby Cox.

Overall, I think more fondly of him than most others do.

Things I like about him:

He doesn't give away a lot of outs. He doesn't play that stupid small ball that a lot of fans go on and on about, and I like that.

His teams play fundamentally sound baseball, and historically, they play relatively sound defense.

His teams don't make a lot of base running blunders and they don't miss the cut off men much, or throw to the wrong base. They are fundamentally sound.

He has always managed a clubhouse well. He handles the media well. He really is a players manager.

I think he rests his players well and I like how he manages pitch counts.

I like the way he platoons.

Things I hate about him:

I hate, hate, hate how he always falls back on the security of a veteran player.

Drives me crazy on his inability to make player changes when it is obvious that something is not working.


The last couple of years has really shortened my fuse with Cox, though. The Francoeur fiasco really, for the first time, cause me to actually hate Cox. His insistence on never sitting him down just about wore me out with the game of baseball. You see the behavior being repeated now with Anderson.

Every fan hates the pitching changes that a manager makes. Should have pulled him sooner....should have pulled him later.....every fan hates the pitcher moves. This has happened for a hundred years and will keep happening for the next hundred.

Cox gets a lot of flak for not being an "x and o" manager, and maybe some of that is deserved, but in the big picture, that kind of stuff just doesn't matter a great deal.

What does matter is keeping atrocious players in your lineup and giving them tons of at bats.

I know that we haven't been a very good team, but I think a lot of the reason for that is because we have some really weak positions on the field, but I can't help but think that we should be better than we are, even with the players we have. And honestly, I can't help but wonder if a different manager would be a better move for us.

Man....that's one of the things I hate so much about Francouer......he really did cause me to see Cox in a much harsher light.

[BraveFan]

We have talked for a while about Hudson and Vazquez and which one of them won't be back in 2010. I just came up with an idea that would save the Braves some $$ and allow the Braves to keep Hudson at the sametime. Here it goes: The Braves trade Vazquez in the offseason for a bat and instead of picking up Hudson's 12M option the Braves re-sign Hudson to a longer term deal but the kick is that Hudson doesn't get paid 12M instead is at around 8M for the first year or two then possibly backload the contract. You may ask why would Hudson do this? There are several reasons he might be willing to do this: 1. He loves playing in Atlanta and close to home, 2. He wants to win and get Ws this would allow the Braves not only to get that needed OFer but the extra money the Braves save would allow the Braves to re-sign Soriano and possibly Gonzo, 3. If the Braves decided to keep Vazquez instead and not pickup TH's option he will probably will not get much more on the open market.

The Braves maybe able in the offseason to trade Vazquez for a powerful outfielder that also cost less than Vazquez in terms of salary, but the Braves cutting ties with Hudson would force the Braves to keep Javy and have to sign a free agent outfielder which would probably cost the same or maybe more than Vazquez's salary. So by trading Javy for a good bat who could be cheaper than Javy and then having left over money from Hudson's discount the Braves bring back Soriano and possibly Gonzo and could possibly have some $$ to spare to bring in another bat.

[KB 34]

If Hudson wants to win so badly why does he sign with a team that by the offseason most likely will have missed the playoffs for four straight seasons? Furthermore why does he take a pay cut from $13 million to $8 million to do it? He may take a hometown discount but like Smoltz he's not stupid. Backloading another deal is stupid from a Braves perspective because if you can't afford it now you can't afford it later. Thankfully Wren is doing a really nice job there where JS struggled when the payroll started leveling off and being cut.

Not to menion Vazquez is an all star caliber pitcher right now. It's really hard to find pitchers of that quality, really hard. If the Braves get a couple bats and dump the pitching we're back to a great offense and 10-9 losses because Reyes II, Davies II, and Carylyle II are a terrible back end of the rotation and Moylan, Bennett, and Acosta as a setup and closer crew is a joke. I'm encouraged the Braves might make some smart moves now that Francoeur and his contract are history now and at the end of the season and my feeling is the Braves are going to have a little money to get a power hitter without destroying the starting rotation which if you ask me trading Vazquez for hitting would do.

[Lauren T.]

Fun Facts about the new Turner Field Coca-Cola Bottle:

• The bottle is 49-feet-tall.

• The shell is made of a polycarbonate high-impact material

• The bottle is traced with 15 vertical ribs comprised of 9,000 single LED’s lights, each capable of producing up to 16.7 million different colors.

• The inside of the bottle is illuminated with 45 LED color blast light fixtures capable of producing up to 16.7 million different colors. Each lighting fixture has 36 single color lights.

• The label on the bottle is comprised of a high-resolution, changeable screen that is made up of 96,000 pixels.

• The bottle still has the capability to shoot fireworks after every Braves home run.

[Hobbes]

Wasn't that previously comprised of various baseball equipment (bats, balls, etc.)? I thought it looked cool the old way, but I guess this gives them more opportunity to create some visual interest.

[Middle Man]

They may have to start shooting off the fireworks and stuff with any extra base hit if they want to get their moneys' worth.

[Hobbes]

The new form looks pretty tacky to my eye, at least in the daytime. It looks like the Braves are trying to add some "bling" to Turner Field.

[Lauren T.]

I'll try to get some video on Saturday. It won't be as impressive during the day, but I can't get there any sooner.

[Hobbes]

Just a little blurb on Infante from Yahoo:

INF-OF Omar Infante (broken left hand) has been cleared to begin swinging a bat, hitting off a tee in the indoor cage. Manager Bobby Cox estimates he is two weeks away from a minor-league rehab assignment, which Cox thinks should last five or six games.