GAMETHREAD: DO YOU STAND UP AND FIGHT OR JUST LET IT SLIP AWAY September 24, 2010 @ Washington Nationals

[BigWorm]

No more margin for error.
No excuses about rookie pitchers.
No Ankkkkkkkiel striking out.
No McDoubting yourself on outfield flyballs.
No Getting behind early.
No more bad news bears baseball.

Let's go boys. I want playoffs. Bobby deserves it. Let's kill it. Dominate the Nationals. I believe.

[CanadaBravesFan]

No more Melky!

Lets just go up to bat WANTING to be the hero. Crush the damn ball, and lets destroy these guys.

9 games to destiny!

[AhbBrave]

No more Melky!

agreed :thumbsup:

[luvdembravos]

Jordan Zimmermann (6.75 ERA, 1.70 WHIP) has totally sucked in 4 of his 5 starts this year. That stated, I predict he'll look like an ace tonight.

[alaskabravesfan]

alaskabravesfan listening and cheering!

[-Dr. Brave-]

Geaux Braves

[luvdembravos]

Three unimpressive AB's in the first and the Braves go down quietly. Looks like it's up to Hudson to get us a "W" tonight.

I like Martin Prado but his average continues to fall ... he is not a #3 hitter which is something the Braves' brass needs to rectify this off season.

[luvdembravos]

Hudson has an easy first inning.

[luvdembravos]

Dunn crushes one to dead center...Braves down 1-0.

[luvdembravos]

Umpire screws us on close play at first.

[luvdembravos]

Dunn hits another home run against Hudson. I'm done for tonight.

[-Dr. Brave-]

Next 3 times Dunn comes up tonight, Hudson should just plunk him in the ass.

[MississippiBrave91]

Oh no... No...no nononono...:no:

[MississippiBrave91]

Got something cookin! Bases loaded with mcclouth up and 1 out.

....and he strikes out on a high heater

[-Dr. Brave-]

Omar!

Hits one off the left field fair pole... 3-1 gNats.

[KB 34]

I'm starting to think I coulld throw a shutout against this offense. Come on, get some runs.

[-Dr. Brave-]

I'm starting to think I coulld throw a shutout against this offense. Come on, get some runs.

That's going to be our demise. Definitely something to be addressed this winter.

[-Dr. Brave-]

Nationals execute the hit-and-run play perfectly with Pudge Rodriguez running off first.

I can't remember the last time I saw the Braves try the hit-and-run.

[alaskabravesfan]

wow. just wow.

[-Dr. Brave-]

And Pudge scores on a sac fly to make it 4-1.

Hudson's just not hitting his spots tonight.

[-Dr. Brave-]

And Hudson issues another walk.

And Hudson is Dunn.

[alaskabravesfan]

six walks from Hudson in less than six innings...

That's the summation of the game right there.

[-Dr. Brave-]

Damn.

[-Dr. Brave-]

That's the summation of the game right there.

Adam Dunn gets his 5th RBI of the night.

Too bad we didn't trade for him instead of Teixeira.

[-Dr. Brave-]

Not that it has any bearing on us anymore, but the Phillies just polished off the Mets 3-2.

[Gman]

Not sure how long the Braves want to keep sending the same guys up to the plate who just aren't getting it done. The pitchers have no margin for error with this bunch right now. If they give up 2 or 3 it's close to over. I think BC needs to wake up some of these guys. Put Conrad or Glaus in. Stick Infante and Hinske out in the OF and get Freddie in at first.

The time for waiting for Melky, Ankiel, McLouth, Diaz, and Derek Lee to come around has passed. Get some new sticks in there for a game or two and see if they can wake up this offense. Some of these guys just aren't making a bit of difference.

[-Dr. Brave-]

Unbelievable. It just gets better.

[alaskabravesfan]

Am I listening to the Braves play? Or is this the Washington Generals game?

[-Dr. Brave-]

Am I listening to the Braves play? Or is this the Washington Generals game?

It's the Atlanta Nutcrackers against the Washington House of Representatives.

By gaw the Braves ain't doin' no representin'.

[IkeWagner]

Willie "the answer" Harris with an inside-the-park homer.

This is ugly.

[-Dr. Brave-]

That inside-the-park homer by Willie Harris was his 10th homer of the year.

Maybe we could use him in our cleanup spot.

[CanadaBravesFan]

I love BC but I cant wait for a new direction. I am sick of the same garbage, every year, our lineup goes to die late in the year. No power, no hit-and-run, and no stolen bases. I would rather lose 7-6 than 1-0.

I would love to see us pick up a power LF and allow our CF (whoever it is) to steal bases and put pressure on the other team. Prado is not a 3rd place hitter, and McCann is not a clean-up hitter. Melky and Ankiel are not major league starters (ever), Diaz is not near consistant enough to be an everyday player, and Pendleton is not a hitting coach.

Ok, now I can breathe. :banghead:

[-Dr. Brave-]

The Braves _________ for two runs in the 8th to make it 7-3.

a) explode
b) implode
c) commode
d) pie à la mode

[Chris_Moderato]

So, I guess the answer is "JUST LET IT SLIP AWAY".

[CanadaBravesFan]

Cant make mistakes when you score less than 15 runs a week

[alaskabravesfan]

Can Brooks Conrad hit a 5 run super grand slam to tie the game?

[-Dr. Brave-]

Can Brooks Conrad hit a 5 run super grand slam to tie the game?

I don't think he could circle the bases 5 times without being tagged out.

[-Dr. Brave-]

Who knew that Hershey's Syrup plus Calcium was so nutritious?... 10% of the Recommended Daily Allowance of Calcium... 10% of the RDA of Biotin... 10% of Pantothenic Acid... 10% Zinc... 10% Vitamin E... and 1 gram of dietary fiber. Woohoo!!

Sorry, but I haven't been this excited in quite a while...

[-Dr. Brave-]

And mercifully, this one's over. The Nationals are 9-7 against the Braves this year.

[alaskabravesfan]

yuck.

[CanadaBravesFan]

14 F@@KING Strikeouts. Randy Johnson was great for them tonight. :furious:

[-Dr. Brave-]

OK, time for Chuck Tanner to make an appearance and bash everyone on this thread for being so negative.

[Chris_Moderato]

I held out hope that the Braves just got smacked around by the Phillies because the Phils are on an amazing tear right now, but watching part of the game tonight, I saw a defeated team. Despite all the bull***** they spit to the press, this team doesn't appear to have any faith in themselves, and it's showing in their half-assed play. I won't say they've consciously given up...but seriously, playoff contenders, teams who really want it, gooooood teams don't lose to the Nationals during the last week and a half of the season, with playoff contention at stake.

What a sad way for the season to end.

[-Dr. Brave-]

The Giants just won. If the Padres win, they take the wild card lead.

[Freddy_Ballgame]

@#*! I knew I should've copyrighted that AnKKKKKKKKKKiel bit!
I'm glad I missed this trainwreck!

[BigWorm]

Sorry guys I failed you. And Freddy you stole that from someone else.

[KB 34]

Going into this season I didn't see the Braves as a playoff team. I expected .500 baseball or maybe a little better and the team to be pretty much okay except for a bullpen implosion at some point. I felt the team played over its head for a lot of the season and would come down to Earth somewhat. However, it looked like even if the Barves did come back to Earth as long as they played decently they'd make the playoffs.

Missing the playoffs in itself wouldn't bother me if the team simply didn't have the talent. The problem has been the team has the talent but isn't using it. Bobby Cox did a great job managing the team for a long time, but down the stretch he's returned to old ways that aren't working. His response to Hinske struggling was to give more at bats to Melky and Diaz who are inferior players in my estimation, which isn't saying much. McLouth has shown signs of life but loses time to Melky, whose only value is the former Yankee tag.

When Glaus crashed he continued to play Glaus as Freeman kept playing better at AAA. Trying Lee at 1B for a while wasn't a bad option, but when Lee did nothing Freeman wasn't given a chance. Conrad has sat on the bench and never gotten a chance to prove he's better than Diaz or Melky, which I'm sure he is. With the season on the line the same characters and same lineup is going out there everyday that blew a really nice lead. I hate seeing a team lose without trying anything and everything to turn things around. My position remains unchanged, I can't wait to see new management for the Braves next season. Bobby Cox is one of the greats but he's not coming thrugh anymore. It looks like the no playoff streak will grow to half a decade soon. I'm sick of the Braves acting like it's still the glory years when it's really time to start something new, not pretend losing years and missed chances never happen or happened.

[Braves N Canes]

Okay, people need to take a breather and step back from the ledge. While it certainly is our fans' rights to question moves made by our FO and manager/coaching staff. Hell, it gives us threads to talk in. With that said, it doesn't mean it's right. The fact is that Bobby Cox has made the Atlanta Braves. Our success over that last 20 years can be traced back to him. 14 straight divisions, that will NEVER happen again. I can hear it now..."Yeah but we only won 1 championship." Quit being told what to think by BS sports media...they get paid to tell you how you think. The Braves are the one of the classiest, most well respected organizations in all of baseball. We have always had a plan with how we go about our business. We have a winning tradition which I'm sure a lot of teams would love to have. That comes back to Bobby Cox. You can look forward to the "Next Generation" if you want to but don't dump on the guy that gave our organization everything just because we didn't make the playoffs his last year when we had a chance to. It's so easy to sit back in the recliner and make all the moves. But you just can't yank guys in and out of the lineup. Plus you're asking Bobby to do things that he's never done in his 20 years as a manager. He's been successful because he trusts his guys to do the job. That's his MO, it's what he does. Coaches/managers that are successful are because they do what got them there. Bobby Cox is no different. Sure he could have done things here and there but the bottom line is we should be happy that we're even in the hunt. Think about it...Chipper-done for the year, Heyward- playing at least 81 games with a busted thumb, Kris Medlan's UCL, Prado's hand injury at a critical time, JJ only pitching 3/4ths of a year, McCann having a SLOW start, McLouth never even getting out of the gate. Those are all guys that we really count on to produce albeit Medlan came on later. And we were in first for 3 months! It doesn't take a genius to figure out that our pitching was the reason we was winning.

Let's face it(and somebody has already said this), but if we can't beat teams that we're supposed to like the Nats and Pirates then we don't deserve to get in. We aren't good enough to not pitch and not play defense. We don't do those two things, we don't win. It's that simple.

[Agent-X-]

You can be all Debbie Downer if you want. The team is down and out. They may snap out of it, or maybe they won't. Sometimes these skids last for 15 games or more. The Phillies have won 11 straight in an opposite situation--does that mean they'll likely have a winning percentage near 1.000? Of course not. They can do no wrong right now in much the same way the Braves could do no wrong when they won several games in a row.

Chalk it up to not having good luck with the players we have. This team needs to focus on getting some good bats. It was a nice try with Troy Glaus who gave us a fantastic month or two. Lee was also a good pickup down the stretch, unfortunately he's just not healthy enough to provide that needed production. Oh well... sometimes it happens. We have some very good talent, but one reason or another has led to severely diminished production out of the guys we really needed to rely on.

The circumstances could be right the opposite with the same players we have and it could be us riding an 11 game winning streak. We could have four nearly untouchable pitchers in our rotation backed by Glaus and Lee going crazy on the ball, but that's not what happened for us. That's baseball.

[Braves_fever]

The team is out of confidence, the problem in the team is the run support, and Hudson is in a bad move at the present time.
Minor is talented, but not enough solid in clutch time, he's very young and can be a solid starting pitcher with experience. Hanson made a great job against Phillies, but Oswalt was huge the same day. The big miss in starting pitchers is Medlen, i think the team worked confident when he is in the mount.

Infante did the job, Prado, Mac Cann are players we can rely on, I've asked myself if Lee is a good trade, he had some good moves but he's disappointing in my sense. Gonzalez joined Braves when the team really worked well, and Escobar wasn't so bad i think. Have the two big trades of Gonzalez and Lee and some injuries imbalance the lineup ?

I think Chipper is missing, it can be just symbolic but his presence on the field can put the teammates in a better mental condition.

Eight games to go, nothing is lost, but i think they have to win 6 of last 8 games to be sure to be part of postseason.

Tough job in perpective, are they able to do this now ? I really hope so

[luvdembravos]

These lovable utility players aren't so lovable anymore.

[Wahoo]

These lovable utility players aren't so lovable anymore.

Well they are utility players and there is a reason for that, because they aren't good enough to start. And we have been using then as starters. I don't envy Wren this offseason because not only does he have to do something about the Lowe/KK situation but he gas to go out and get us to starting outfielders and possibly a third baseman.

[Lauren T.]

These lovable utility players aren't so lovable anymore.
Well, as they said on the broadcast, Conrad and Hinske each got AB #2 of the road trip during last night's game. They've both been firestarters this year; I have no idea why Glaus would be getting a PH opportunity over either of them. I know Freeman's our 1B of the future, but if we're trying to win for Bobby NOW, it would have been wiser to bank on his success in AAA and keep him in the starter's groove instead of relegating him to a bench role. We brought Lee over two days after an epidural (yes, the same thing they give women to help them deal with childbirth pain), but we won't start a healthy, rockin' Freddie three games in a row?

I'm looking forward to seeing what Fredi Gonzalez will do for the team next year. (*crosses fingers*)

[jlcct]

I usually find myself siding with the optimistic posters for the most part but I just don't understand most of the roster moves at the end here. Why did the Braves sit back and watch the Philies adjust their rotation for the series with us and we did nothing? If the response has anything to do with how Bobby manages the game and that's how we have a tradition of winning then I don't want to hear it. We might be the only team in baseball that wouldn't have taken that serious. I really feel that way. I'm so frustrated. Why with Melky? What did he do to inspire any confidence? Did he get all these starts because he's really really nice? How come every game I watch I hear the announcers questioning our moves? Why is it that we can make the post season this year and I don't even care? Why in the world is Ankiel even still on the team? Defensive replacement in the ninth? Fine but that should be it. Nope he's our worst option so he gets the rest of the year to prove that he is better than this because he's probably a really really nice guy. The second half of this year is the first year since I was twelve that I didn't bother watching half the games that were on because the remote was on the other side of the coffee table. No wonder nobody watches. I'm so out of touch with our team right now and I think it's because I never agree with anything we do so when something bad happens I just get upset. No offense meant towards Wren because I think he's done alright with what he has had to work with.
I'd be willing to bet right now that if it were the last game of the season and it's win and were in, lose and were out and we had to decide who to pitch I bet Bobby throws Beachy in there over anyone not named Hudson, Lowe or Hanson. And you know what he's going to get rocked. Every ball he threw in that Phillies game was hit hard. Very hard. He was getting lucky all night. They must have missed four home runs by two inches and every out he recorded was a line drive rocket right at a defender. See I just don't think Bobby is willing to think outside the box in times like these. It feels like this is the second week of the season and were playing as though the decisions we make are insignificant to the outcome of the game. I'm sorry for all this. I typed this same rant probably twelve times this season but I always delete it before I get someone upset. In this case I just needed to vent.

[alaskabravesfan]

In this case I just needed to vent.

It's okay jlcct, you are among friends. ;)

[bravos4evr]

Okay, people need to take a breather and step back from the ledge. While it certainly is our fans' rights to question moves made by our FO and manager/coaching staff. Hell, it gives us threads to talk in. With that said, it doesn't mean it's right. The fact is that Bobby Cox has made the Atlanta Braves. Our success over that last 20 years can be traced back to him. 14 straight divisions, that will NEVER happen again. I can hear it now..."Yeah but we only won 1 championship." Quit being told what to think by BS sports media...they get paid to tell you how you think. The Braves are the one of the classiest, most well respected organizations in all of baseball. We have always had a plan with how we go about our business. We have a winning tradition which I'm sure a lot of teams would love to have. That comes back to Bobby Cox. You can look forward to the "Next Generation" if you want to but don't dump on the guy that gave our organization everything just because we didn't make the playoffs his last year when we had a chance to. It's so easy to sit back in the recliner and make all the moves. But you just can't yank guys in and out of the lineup. Plus you're asking Bobby to do things that he's never done in his 20 years as a manager. He's been successful because he trusts his guys to do the job. That's his MO, it's what he does. Coaches/managers that are successful are because they do what got them there. Bobby Cox is no different. Sure he could have done things here and there but the bottom line is we should be happy that we're even in the hunt. Think about it...Chipper-done for the year, Heyward- playing at least 81 games with a busted thumb, Kris Medlan's UCL, Prado's hand injury at a critical time, JJ only pitching 3/4ths of a year, McCann having a SLOW start, McLouth never even getting out of the gate. Those are all guys that we really count on to produce albeit Medlan came on later. And we were in first for 3 months! It doesn't take a genius to figure out that our pitching was the reason we was winning.

Let's face it(and somebody has already said this), but if we can't beat teams that we're supposed to like the Nats and Pirates then we don't deserve to get in. We aren't good enough to not pitch and not play defense. We don't do those two things, we don't win. It's that simple.


This is just not accurate. Most of the years of our run a termite coulda managed the team with the talent we had. Bobby is an average mgr who has good years. His skill lies in his ability to get the most out of his players. His downfall is he overuses the same arms , leaves pitchers in too long and overvalues "veterans"... IMO with a guy like Jim Leland the Braves would've won 2 or 3 mor WS ..... I think Bobby is a mediocre mgr and always have. I don't think he "deserves" to go out a winner, we won despite him not because of him.

[Braves N Canes]

This is just not accurate. Most of the years of our run a termite coulda managed the team with the talent we had.

And you know this from what coaching experience under your belt? Like I said, it's really easy to coach from the recliner. And this isn't just a comment to you but to everybody just typing in "insert roster move here" and thinking it will be the magic pill. This isn't fantasy baseball. Mix and match 25 guys(and egos) and on top of that win ball games let alone with a team that is SUPPOSED to win ball games. There are many things that Bobby does that I don't understand like how he manages his bullpen, playing Melky Cabrera for any extended period of time, or playing him in CF when he has shown since his Yankee days that he can't play there, or a lack of trying to manufacture runs when we're in a big drought. But at least think about why he might be doing what he's doing or why he might have to do what he's doing. If you want a guy to change the lineup like everyone wants here then go watch the Cardinals and have fun with LaRussa's different lineup every day.

Oh and for the guy that needed to vent, fine vent, you're frustrated and so is everybody else. But Beachy started that game because JJ was scratched because of a knee injury not because BC wanted to get Brandon a start. We didn't set the rotation against the Phillies because we needed the wins against the Mets. Plus at this point Hudson's running on fumes after having surgery, JJ has problems with his knee, Lowe hasn't exactly been consistent, and Minor is a rookie, and KK is well...KK. What options does BC have at that point?

[bravos4evr]

Your argument is ridiculous. I can tell a bad movie when I see one , that doesn't require me to have made a movie to have a valid opinion. I can see with my own two eyes the results of his managerial approach!!!! His track record of sticking with over the hill or journeymen veterans and getting rid of similarly struggling young players is right there in black and white. The fact that the Braves seem to ALWAYS have a right handed relief arm who is in the top 3 in appearances is too. These aren't even opinions they are FACTS!!!!
The fact that they won 14 divisions in a row only made 5 world series and won only one is also a testament to his poor choices and bad in game decision making. I saw every single one of those playoff games (with the exception of 1993 I was in Germany) and I can say that IMO his attitude of "every game means the same thing" and never allowing the team to get uber fired up has hurt the Braves in the playoffs.... they just have never seemed like they were hungry for victory...

On the other hand, he is maybe the greatest players mgr ever. They love him, play hard for him and he probably gets more out of some mediocre talent than any other mgr ever. The problem is he tends to stick with it whenever the mediocreness shows back up. He's TOOOO supportive of his players. It makes them feel all warm and fuzzy inside and they prolly save money on therapists but they sure as hell don't win too many world series do they?

Not to mention Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Leo Mazzone and Ted Turner's money....

[bravos4evr]

Btw, I think my opinion is going to be completely verified when the new mgr takes over and FW doesn't have to "listen" to Bobby when it comes to personnel decisions....

[jlcct]

And you know this from what coaching experience under your belt? Like I said, it's really easy to coach from the recliner. And this isn't just a comment to you but to everybody just typing in "insert roster move here" and thinking it will be the magic pill. This isn't fantasy baseball. Mix and match 25 guys(and egos) and on top of that win ball games let alone with a team that is SUPPOSED to win ball games. There are many things that Bobby does that I don't understand like how he manages his bullpen, playing Melky Cabrera for any extended period of time, or playing him in CF when he has shown since his Yankee days that he can't play there, or a lack of trying to manufacture runs when we're in a big drought. But at least think about why he might be doing what he's doing or why he might have to do what he's doing. If you want a guy to change the lineup like everyone wants here then go watch the Cardinals and have fun with LaRussa's different lineup every day.

Oh and for the guy that needed to vent, fine vent, you're frustrated and so is everybody else. But Beachy started that game because JJ was scratched because of a knee injury not because BC wanted to get Brandon a start. We didn't set the rotation against the Phillies because we needed the wins against the Mets. Plus at this point Hudson's running on fumes after having surgery, JJ has problems with his knee, Lowe hasn't exactly been consistent, and Minor is a rookie, and KK is well...KK. What options does BC have at that point?

I wasn't trying to get on him for starting Beachy. I guess I'm just frustrated. After seeing that start I don't see how he has the stuff to produce the numbers that he has produced. Maybe I'm wrong and he will be able to translate that to the bigs but at this point I don't see how. I see a player with potential to do good things but more potential to suck and I'm glad we won't have to deal with him for 3/4 of a season if he does stink up the joint. If Bobby were staying another season I wouldn't be able to say that. I feel guilty for even thinking these things about Bobby but I'm being honest. I'll praise the many things he does right another time.

[Freddy_Ballgame]

I've made no secret over the years about how I view Bobby Cox - great personnel guy, run-of-the-mill baseball manager. Rookies out-manage the guy in games. He seems to snooze through early innings and only appears early to get tossed or be seen on tv picking his nose. You can't argue with his record, but you can certainly question how the team may have fared if they had hired a tougher guy who managed games rather than coddled "his" guys. I appreciate what Cox did for Atlanta. I've been a fan since they relocated in Atlanta and the run was fantastic! More WS titles would've really made it better. They had the talent, just not the proper approach most seasons.
BTW, Worm, you're not telling the truth. I didn't steal that from anyone. I don't have to steal good lines.