Why Andruw Jones is a Hall of Fame player

[bravos4evr]

I put this in the mlb thread since he's no longer a Brave and this post concerns the HOF. Mods can move it if they desire!

I was doing a little reference browsing today and it made me realize that even with his offensive breakdown, AJ should be a HOF player due to his glove and career numbers. Yes he faded fast, but he also started really young! Here's the statistical comparitive breakdown:

1815 hits, 400 HR's , 1203 RBI's career OPS of .824 OPS+ of 110

10 consecutive Gold Gloves in a fielding first position (CF)

My argument :

AJ has 10 gold gloves , all other players with as many or more GG are in the HOF (or are expected to be) with the exception of JIm Katt (and many writers think that's atrocious that he isn't in)

IMO, if Ozzy Smith and Omar Visquel are in the AJ has to be in. He as as much a fielding genius as they, yet with mad power from the CF position.

He's considered to be one of the top 10 CF'ers of all time statistically AND fielding wise. along with the following players: Mays, Mantle, Griffey JR, Kaline, Speaker,Cobb,Snider,Puckett...etc I don't think there is a top ten of all time at any position who isn't in the HOF.

The sad thing is, if he hadn't hit those 51 HR's that year, I think he would've been productive for longer.... I really think that screwed him up and made him power hungry. I bet he would've been a 500 HR, 1500+ RBI with 2500 hits or so and been a lock. I still think he gets in because of all the GG's, but it won't be first ballot.

[Hobbes]

Unless he puts on a good show for a few seasons to wind down his career I don't think he has much of a shot at the Hall, regardless of his numbers. The voters just will not see him as a HOF player, and at this point I agree.

[wordslayer©]

Good question

I love when you watch a game and you see your main guy come to the plate and you almost feel sorry for the pitcher because you know that your guy is going to perform in that spot. Andruw was *never* that guy for me. Even when Andruw was good, he still just irked the living hell out of me when he was at the plate, and that, in my mind, doesn't make a hall of famer. Hell, I felt better watching Lonnie Smith at the plate over Andruw Jones.

When I think of Andruw, I think of double plays and swinging away at that low and away outside pitch. He was a slightly better version of Dale Murphy, but that doesn't make a hall of famer.

I can see why people will make the argument for him to get in the hall of fame, but I hope that the writers don't get carried away with the hollow homeruns and look at all his numbers.

He really only had five years of great defense, and I don't want to take anything away from those years, because those five years he might have been the best who ever played the position, but after that, he was average to horrid on defense.

Like Hobbes....I can't see them voting him in, but then again, I've seen them do worse.

[luvdembravos]

No.

I'd rather see Dale Murphy enter the HoF before Andruw Jones (but Murphy isn't going to make it either).

[Dreamscape]

I got to side on the no's here. As slayer eluded to, the only thing about Andruw Jones that stands out is those half-dozen or so years he was clearly one of the best CF to ever play. But he put on weight, lost that extra step, and became a corkscrew-swinging power hitter. He still had the instincts to do some very impressive stuff from time-to-time, but the days of Andruw making superman plays in CF were over. He became a productive major leaguer, but never stood out amongst his peers. He had his pluses and his considerable negatives.

But a Hall of Famer? Nah. He could have been. Maybe he should have been. But somewhere between losing that step and gaining that extra pop, that chance began to slip away.

[bravos4evr]

Okay, so you all just CHOOSE to pick and choose when numbers suit you.... Do you think Ozzie Smith is a Hall of Famer? He hit like mediocre crap, but he got in on his "glove" Omar Visquel is even a greater version of this.

IMO, many of you are thinking about what he "could have been" rather than what he was. What he was, was a free swinging power hitting CF'er with a mad glove. relative to the position he played, he's a HOF'er. To think other wise is to live in OOTP land.

[luvdembravos]

But a Hall of Famer? Nah. He could have been. Maybe he should have been. But somewhere between losing that step and gaining that extra pop, that chance began to slip away.

Well said...and the corkscrew comment brought back a lot of memories (mostly bad ones). Andruw was a nice ball player but he coulda/shoulda been better.

[Dreamscape]

Okay, so you all just CHOOSE to pick and choose when numbers suit you.... Do you think Ozzie Smith is a Hall of Famer? He hit like mediocre crap, but he got in on his "glove" Omar Visquel is even a greater version of this.

IMO, many of you are thinking about what he "could have been" rather than what he was. What he was, was a free swinging power hitting CF'er with a mad glove. relative to the position he played, he's a HOF'er. To think other wise is to live in OOTP land.
The difference in the two is longevity and context. When compared to the time, being a light-hitting shortstop was not just expected, but the norm. The era of Ozzie was of light-hitting, high-defense middle infielders and no one was better than Ozzie Smith, who was still a plus defender well into his late 30's. As a top flight defensive CF, Andruw Jones was done by 29. He has morphed into a utility player.

Regardless, I don't think Smith is a HOFer. But he has a better case than Andruw because his defensive skills didn't go to the wayside by 30.

[quick]

Well said...and the corkscrew comment brought back a lot of memories (mostly bad ones). Andruw was a nice ball player but he coulda/shoulda been better.


Do you penalize Andruw because he was great but could have been greater? Or, do you say, he was great, and that is good enough.

Let me put it this way: If player X reached only 80% of his potential of 100, but his potential was way higher than almost anyone else, would you value him as much as a guy who reached 95% of his potential, but his potential was somewhat lower at 80?

Also, does anyone have Andruw's VORP and related SABR stats for his run here in Atlanta? How well do they compare with Jim Edmonds' stats, he being the other superlative center fielder in the NL (okay, some AL) during the same period?

I guess Andruw's attitude will likely come back to haunt him come HOF time, but as Bobby said once, Andruw was worth a run a game in CF. That is pretty high praise.

[luvdembravos]

Also, does anyone have Andruw's VORP and related SABR stats for his run here in Atlanta? How well do they compare with Jim Edmonds' stats, he being the other superlative center fielder in the NL (okay, some AL) during the same period?

I'd take Andruw any day of the week over Jim Edmonds - but he ain't no Hall of Famer either.

I'm an AJ fan - I always liked him and he was a great centerfielder in his prime but just because he played most of his career for my favorite team, I'm not going to give him a free pass to the HoF...IMO, he just fell a little short of the high standard required for induction.

[bravos4evr]

If AJ wasn't a CF guy... not a HOF player. But he was!!!! IMO, based on the stats of other career CF guys, AJ IS a HOF player! I don't see how if yer a tope ten guy at any position how you don't get in! Brooks Robinson's offensive stats are beyond mediocre... but he got in cuz of his glove..... Andruw may have been the best CF glove of ALL TIME FOR 8 YEARS AND MAYBE 10 YEARS!!!! That has to mean something!

[Wahoo]

A couple things I think you are overlooking here bravos: longevity and his lack of production.

While when he was on he was a dynamite centerfielder, he wasnt on for nearly a long enough period of time to e considered one of the greatest centerfielders to play the game. That would be like saying Terrell Davis is one of the
10 best running backs of all time: no way. I mean the guy peaked before the age of 30 and unlike Davis he doesn't have the luxury of a career-ending injury to fall back on.

And then when you at his similarity score, the closest to a Hall of Famer on the list is Fred Lynn.


On the upside, he is only 32, he could conceivably still accumulate enough offensive stats to merit consideration depending on how long he plays.

The important distinction here is between talent and production. He unquestionably had Hall of fame talent but as of right now he has not had hall of fame productivity. The biggest factor working against him is the dramatic drop off at such a young age, which appears primarily because of a poor work ethic. That will not earn any favor with any voters. Right now, he is definitely on the outside looking in.

[Hobbes]

The biggest factor working against him is the dramatic drop off at such a young age, which appears primarily because of a poor work ethic. That will not earn any favor with any voters.
I wouldn't be surprised if many voters question a potential link to steroids for his power surge and subsequent crash, which could further hinder his candidacy.

[-Dr. Brave-]

If AJ wasn't a CF guy... not a HOF player. But he was!!!! IMO, based on the stats of other career CF guys, AJ IS a HOF player! I don't see how if yer a tope ten guy at any position how you don't get in! Brooks Robinson's offensive stats are beyond mediocre... but he got in cuz of his glove..... Andruw may have been the best CF glove of ALL TIME FOR 8 YEARS AND MAYBE 10 YEARS!!!! That has to mean something!

Then Dale Murphy is a Hall of Famer too.

[Wahoo]

I wouldn't be surprised if many voters question a potential link to steroids for his power surge and subsequent crash, which could further hinder his candidacy.

Well he is a Boras client, and from all of what I've read, the S in Boras stands for steroids. If fans want to hate Boras for something, they should hate him for his constant enabling of consistent steroid use of many of his high profile clients.

[wordslayer©]

Chipper Jones: Good feelings when he comes to bat for lots and lots of years=hall of famer

Andruw Jones: Bad, bad feelings when he came to bat for lots and lots of years=non-hall of famer.

[Wahoo]

Chipper Jones: Good feelings when he comes to bat for lots and lots of years=hall of famer

Andruw Jones: Bad, bad feelings when he came to bat for lots and lots of years=non-hall of famer.

Excellent simplification.

[Freddy_Ballgame]

In that simplification process, slayer feels Andruw isn't an HoFer, Bravos feels he is.
Gnarly....

[LeeTro]

Someone asked about Andruw's career numbers with the Braves. B-R has him at 60 WAR in his 11 full seasons here. This is what he could have been: http://www.fangraphs.com/graphsw.aspx?playerid2=96&playerid3=1011066&playerid4=&playerid5=

The middle graph is the most telling.