Welcome Back Adam

[absintheofmalaise]

Gordon Edes is reporting on yahoosports that the Braves just reacquired LaRoche from Boston. I'll post a link and more details when I get them.

[Dreamscape]

Was about to do the same.

Could be interesting because the Red Sox were kind of forced to deal LaRoche so it could be for next to nothing.

[Devil Wears Prado]

Will Adam LaRoche become our starter now? I hope we gave up close to nothing for him.

I guess LaRoche will be our 5th or 6th hitter?

[Andy G.]

So this means that Kotchman is being dealt right?

[Dreamscape]

http://www.nesn.com/2009/07/red-sox-adam-laroche-traded-to-braves-for-casey-kotchman.html?mtr

LaRoche, who the Red Sox picked up on July 22 from the Pirates, has been traded to the Atlanta Braves for fellow first baseman Casey Kotchman.

[absintheofmalaise]

NESN is saying that it's for Kotchman.

[Devil Wears Prado]

http://www.nesn.com/2009/07/red-sox-adam-laroche-traded-to-braves-for-casey-kotchman.html?mtr

Why did we do this trade...

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I guess if you take a lot of stock in the fact that LaRoche has hit over .300 with a high SLG in the second half of the last 3 seasons then it makes some sense. Thats a big gamble though.


and for next spring...

Freddie Freeman , come on down!

[Agent-X-]

Why did we do this trade...

Because Laroche is clearly superior to Casey Kotchman... at least as far as batting is concerned.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

July 77 5 13 5 0 2 6 2 0 20 0 0 .169 .190 .312 .502

thats our new 1st basemans July stats....

[Agent-X-]

July 77 5 13 5 0 2 6 2 0 20 0 0 .169 .190 .312 .502

thats our new 1st basemans July stats....

The same could have been said about Kelly Johnson... who might be our new 2B if Laroche doesn't begin hitting... real soon.

:p

[Dreamscape]

I don't think the Braves gambled at all if the deal is correct (LaRoche for Kotchman).

Kotchman was a replacable player by any number of platoon options in the major leagues. Now, he might find his stroke somewhere else and I think in a park like Fenway, where he can serve pitches off the Monster, he might look better (that is, if he ever gets a shot to play regularly there). But in a neutral park like Turner Field, I don't see Kotchman as a fit. First basemen who are singles hitters and play defense don't stick around too long.

On the other hand, LaRoche gives the Braves a shot in the arm. You might sacrifice some on-base percentage, and I stress might because I'm not so sure you actually will, but you get a major lift in power. You will lose a bit in defense, but LaRoche is still a plus defender at first and the differences between a great defensive 1B vs. a good 1B are not as significant as a great defense SS vs. a good SS.

Worst case, Braves lose nothing except the ability to retain Kotchman (who almost certainly would have been overpaid in arbitration). Best case, LaRoche has another big second half, hits 10-15 homers in the final two months, and gives the Braves the power threat they need.

[absintheofmalaise]

AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS

July 77 5 13 5 0 2 6 2 0 20 0 0 .169 .190 .312 .502

thats our new 1st basemans July stats....
Why don't you check out his splits for the second half of the season for the last few years.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Why don't you check out his splits for the second half of the season for the last few years.


I already mentioned that...

[wordslayer©]

They always come back.

No one ever actually leaves the atlanta braves. It's just a sabbatical.

They always come back.

[CharlotteBrave]

Not sure what I think of this, and it kind of seems like the Braves traded just to trade. We shall see how this turns out, and I know LaRoche does very well in the 2nd half of seasons.

[absintheofmalaise]

Didn't see that was you.

[wordslayer©]

Hmmm.....we gave up possibly three or four potential starters to the Texas Rangers and it looks like the dust finally settles and we end up with Adam Laroche.

Let's see...we got rid of LaRoche, so then we had to trade to get a great first baseman, but we then lost the great first baseman, so then we trade to get another first baseman, who really wasn't doing the job of a good first baseman, so now we trade that first baseman and get the the first first baseman that we originally had.

Yeah, when you look at it like that...it all makes sense.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

The biggest part of this deal to me is the fact we don't have a 1st baseman next season. Are they really expecting Freeman to be ready? He's only 19 and he's not a bona-fide superstar like Heyward is. His numbers seem pretty good, but not good enough that I would think he would be good to go out of ST next year.

[Lauren T.]

I am SO excited about this. Never liked Krotchman, always liked LaRoche. More later -- heading to the stadium now!

[luvdembravos]

I never warmed up to Kotchman...he was OK but definitely tradeable.

LaRoche does have power and fields his position well but those July splits were terrible. Does Boston know something we don't?

I think I'll hold my opinion on the trade until mid or late August.

[luvdembravos]

Let's see...we got rid of LaRoche, so then we had to trade to get a great first baseman, but we then lost the great first baseman, so then we trade to get another first baseman, who really wasn't doing the job of a good first baseman, so now we trade that first baseman and get the the first first baseman that we originally had.

Built to Win

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Reports are saying that Kotchmen has been told he was traded to the Red Sox but another trade was likely.

Sounds like the Sox needed to get a cheap serviceable 1b to be part of another deal they are doing. Maybe A gonz, or Halladay. So at least we know why THEY pulled the trigger.

Some other Reports are saying that the Sox chipped in 1 Mil with Laroch.

[Dreamscape]

Truthfully, you should be able to find a 1B to at least put up a .775 OPS or higher or at the very least, a platoon. Freeman is at least a year away so if the Braves don't find a long-term option at 1B, there are plenty of options out there for a year.

LaRoche is probably the top 1B option. One year contract guys like Carlos Delgado, Nick Johnson, and Jason Giambi will be out there. Aubrey Huff might be after a short-term deal and gamble he can have a bigger year and hit the market again. Hell, I almost expect the Sox to non-tender Kotchman anyway.

[luvdembravos]

Reports are saying that Kotchmen has been told he was traded to the Red Sox but another trade was likely.

Sounds like the Sox needed to get a cheap serviceable 1b to be part of another deal they are doing. Maybe A gonz, or Halladay. So at least we know why THEY pulled the trigger.

ESPN is reporting that Red Sox picked up Victor Martinez from the Indians and felt Kotchman would be a better bench option than Laroche.

[Hobbes]

I was never a LaRoche fan, so I feel meh about this trade. I liked Kotchy when we got him, but he never took a step forward while here so I don't have a problem with the swap.

As for the bench option theory, I could see that. Kotchman's more likely to be a valuable bat off the bench since he's a contact hitter. He's less likely to blast a late-inning homer, but more likely to knock an RBI double and keep the inning alive.

[Freddy_Ballgame]

Be careful what you wish for......for all those so anxious to move Kotchman. That said, I see LaRoche as an improvement in the power department only. That may help. Someone mentioned Kotch as simply a singles hitter but didn't he have a good number of doubles, too? As for Roachey, he's solid at first and has shown the ability to drive in runs in the past and this team can always use that. Also, I wouldn't dwell on his numbers with Boston. I don't know how regularly he was playing plus he was breaking into a new league. He should be better returning to the NL and if he follows his old pattern as a second-half guy. Perhaps the Braves have a plan for acquiring a big bat for first next season, since it's been suggested many will be available. Maybe they'll shove Chipper over there for the rest of his decline. Any quality thirdbasemen available next year?

[The Rap]

I have never believed in making a trade just to make a trade but I admit I like what Wren is doing. He seems to be working from a preset plan plugging in pieces. I have no idea why Slayer has the Braves sucking because the future and even the present looks a hell of a lot better than last year when a lot of us felt all hope was lost and you can tell that was so only by reading all the posts.

Anyway Adam brings us more power and many moons ago I wrote that Kotchman is like a luxury if you have a lineup already loaded with power. I wonder how he is going to feel as a defensive sub up in Boston? Martinez and Youklis will play 1st and Kotchman becomes a caddy.

[The Rap]

Freddie, to me it seems very obvious that everything is geared to Heyward and maybe Freeman and Shafer being in next year's lineup.

[Devil Wears Prado]

What does LaRoche's contract look like?

[Dreamscape]

He's a free agent at year's end. According to this link (http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-braves/braves-trade-kotchman-for-105483.html), the Red Sox paid the difference in salary so the Braves effectively will pay no extra money than was already devoted to Kotchman.

Also, according to the link, Barbaro will be at first today before LaRoche is activated for the August 1st game.

[wordslayer©]

. I have no idea why Slayer has the Braves sucking

One must read the blog before one criticizes. I use graphs, charts and expert analysis to make my point.

[CanadaBravesFan]

I am excited about the move. I was always Adam's #1 fan in these parts and was sad to see him go. He is a FA at the end of the year so he has a 2-month audition for a new contract, and we give him a chance to start. Hopefully for him and the team, he takes full advantage of the opportunity!

[BigWorm]

http://a.espncdn.com/winnercomm/outdoors/hunting/2009/p2_group_580.jpg

The real reason we brought back LaRoche.....

Chipper told them to.

Kotchman was great with the glove, and never made an error as a Brave, but LaRoche's defense is solid. The clubhouse will be happier, and he does increase our team power. It's a move forward I believe, not a huge jump but a step in the right direction.

Look for Adam to thrive in a Braves uni. I think this is the exact motivation he needs to really step up his game. He'll be out to prove he should of never left, and after the Pittsburgh fiasco, he'll be looking for a permanent home. This could be really good.

[bravos4evr]

Hmm.....I reckon we did this for the increased power and increased financial flexibility next season. I'm not sure if it's to free up room for Freeman..... It may be so that the Braves can try and trade Vazquez for a big bat AND keep Huddy around with adding very much to payroll.... Interesting to see what happens/

[Agent-X-]

Hmm.....I reckon we did this for the increased power and increased financial flexibility next season. I'm not sure if it's to free up room for Freeman..... It may be so that the Braves can try and trade Vazquez for a big bat AND keep Huddy around with adding very much to payroll.... Interesting to see what happens/

I think the one thing we can conclude is that this move has the potential to bolster us this year.

The Braves are neither buyers nor sellers at the deadline.

[KB 34]

This deal does nothing to help the Braves financially. This season they're matched up and the Braves could always have non-tendered Kotchman, which they wouldn't have because he'd have some trade value. The Braves prefer half a year of LaRoche and unspecified plans for next season to a few years of Kotchman.

I have to think this means Freeman or Heyward are playing 1B next season for the Braves. It's too early for me to make a judgement on that but it is fascinating. From a purely baseball perspective this does add some power to the lineup which is much needed. LaRoche is a potential 25 HR hitter which is better than most of the Braves lineup. I said the Braves needed a 35 HR hitter to make a run at the playoffs so theoretically LaRoche could get really hot and make it happen, at least he has the potential to where Kotchman was strictly a contact hitter. Still, I like players with longterm deals and thought Kotchman would breakout with the Braves, insert TP rant here if you like. I'm not ticked at Wren about the deal but I'm not celebrating either. There are clear reasons not to make the deal and make it and right now they're pretty close in my mind.

[bravos4evr]

They wouldn't non tender Kotchman, and this does potentially free up around $4 million or so( estimated Kotchman arby figure). When you combine that with Soriano,Gonzo Church,KJ ( who I think may be traded this offseason) and then add to the elgible arby players and then figure that Huddy's salary replaces Vazquez. I think that the team could have a significant chunk of change to spend on a bat via a trade and also to bolster the bullpen ( whether that means by re-signing Soriano or going after another guy).

I think it DOES help the team financially for next season as well as bolster our potential power numbers this season.

[JanShan12]

I was never a LaRoche fan, but I hope he proves me wrong in the second half of this season. A big month of August for him might be what the Braves need to take the wild card.

[sdp]

Just got home and saw this news. I'm a little confused and befuddled... I don't know what to make of it.

[-Dr. Brave-]

I don't get it either. The Braves could have had Kotchman signed to a reasonable contract, and traded him for a useful piece during the offseason, or kept him until Heyward/Freeman got ready. I don't see LaRoche as being an upgrade in anything but home runs, but what he gains there, Kotchman makes up for with his better defense, higher batting average and doubles power, and ability to put the ball in play.


AB 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Kotchman 298 20 0 6 41 32 28 0 0 .282 .354 .409 .764
LaRoche 343 27 1 13 43 41 83 2 2 .248 .326 .446 .772


LaRoche's OPS is only .008 better than Kotchman, whose defense and better contract status are worth more than that. We should have gotten another piece in that deal.

[Dreamscape]

I'm going to have to disagree. Kotchman, while retainable, didn't bring much bang for the buck. The value of a 1B who has no power, nor versitility, is not very high to think he would have brought much in a trade except a guy who had no place with his current team, much like Adam LaRoche. The Braves simply needed more power and got it. The defensive difference isn't that much. I mean, let's be honest, no one keeps a 1B around for defense like you might keep a SS around.

LaRoche has been bit by the BABIP bug a bit this year. Chances are good, that will correct itself and his AVG will go up as a result, closer to his .269 career average. That 20 point difference will add to his OBP and SLG (probably with a good deal to SLG), making the differences offensively between these two quite clear. While we can talk up this year's numbers, I think their career numbers show that out, as well as the past three seasons snapshot. LaRoche is not going to be an impact player, but I do think he's better for the Braves right now than Kotchman. With Kotchman, you need a DH to compensate for the lack of typical 1B production.

[Devil Wears Prado]

Can't LaRoche also play 3B? Or maybe I'm just thinking he can because his brother can...

[-Dr. Brave-]

Can't LaRoche also play 3B? Or maybe I'm just thinking he can because his brother can...

No, Adam only plays first, same as Kotchman. Adam throws left-handed and is too slow to play the outfield, so he's stuck at first.

If Adam can approach his 2006 pace, it will be a good trade for the Braves. But unless the Braves can sign LaRoche next year for much less than the $7M he's making this year, I'd still rather have Kotchman. Or maybe the Braves can just play Canizares until our studs are ready.

At this point, I'm calling it a push for Atlanta, and a win for Boston.

[wordslayer©]

LaRoche has been bit by the BABIP bug a bit this year. Chances are good, that will correct itself and his AVG will go up as a result, closer to his .269 career average.

Ever think about this? What does BABIP really tell us? It tells us that the hitter is putting the ball in play, and it does say something about where he is now compared to where he has been in other parts of his career, but again, what does it really say? It doesn't say much about the squibbers, the seeing eye singles......just sort of says "hey, the ball is going into play."

BUT.....if people, instead, looked at just the slugging average for balls in play, then that might really tell us something. This could give a much better view of what is actually going on with a hitter. I'm surprised that no one has looked at it yet. I'm not exactly sure what information we could gleen from it, but it sure seems like it would say a lot more than the BABIP does.

[Dreamscape]

I think in a vacuum, BABIP won't tell you too much, but historically, players have fairly consistent BABIP. So, if a player is having a bad year in average, we can look at where his BABIP compares to his career and say "hey, he's having a bit of bad luck." True, it doesn't differentiate between exactly how the player is putting the ball in play, but then, it also doesn't tell us whether the player is seeing a spike in line drives (which are turned into outs) either.

I like what BABIP can tell us, I guess.

[KB 34]

They wouldn't non tender Kotchman, and this does potentially free up around $4 million or so( estimated Kotchman arby figure). .....
One name for you, Marcus Giles. I thought worst case scenario was the Braves would trade him for a reliever and then he was non-tendered. Any player in arbitration is potential freed up money to go after other players. That's the beauty of the system, teams can choose not to cave to the demands of players like Francoeur. The reason you made the comments you did is it's not easy to find a 1B a team is confident in for $4 million. That should cause a bit of concern to everyone because it's not clear what the Braves have in mind or how it's going to play out. It needs to be something better than Prado over there.

[Dreamscape]

Well, it is very doubtful the Braves would have non-tendered Kotchman. Giles isn't exactly a similar case in that Giles had begun his downward fall whereas Kotchman wasn't declining, nor progressing. Clearly, the Braves would have tendered Kotchman a contract, especially when they had no options in house, though I guess you could argue that after 2006, the best in-house option was Martin Prado before Kelly Johnson showed he could at least not be embarrassed at second base. While Kotchman is the kind of player I wouldn't tender a contract, I just can't see the Braves not tendering him one.

It may not be easy to find one 1B you can be confident of producing, but I think you can find a platoon option. The Braves found Julio and Matt Franco just sitting around and they produced rather well. A properly used platoon can be useful. Granted, like a QB platoon, if you have two, you probably don't have one good one, but it's a beneficial cost-cutting move. That said, I fully expect the Braves to target Nick Johnson or, if he's non-tendered, Casey Kotchman. Now, the Red Sox will have every reason to non-tender Kotchman if they don't trade him. Finding production at first base isn't really as hard as the Braves make it seem.

[jamminHANES]

They're cutting payroll due to Kotchman's increase in arbitration money and likely keeping Prado and Kelly around next season with Prado beginning the season at first and Freeman getting the call mid season.

[IkeWagner]

I like what BABIP can tell us, I guess.

It's also fun to say - Bah-Bip

[ScooterBrave]

I'm happy to have him back. Never thought we should have gotten rid of him in the first place.

[RiknTN]

I did see the possibility and I'd hoped it wasn't as obvious as I thought it was.

In that case....

Hurray....we go from punchless to begin the year to unproven.

I know many generally like Prado...and I can't argue with getting his bat in there while it's hot. I also don't doubt that because of his massive ability to make contact he won't suffer prolonged slumps like a Francoeur or LaRoche would, but I also see his production the last couple of years as somewhat flukish. I mean...I don't know how much it's been discussed so apologies if it's already been covered, but Prado's BABIP is pretty wicked high which would suggest over a prolonged period of time he will regress. When he regresses...he will become a frustratingly powerless 1B (like a right handed version of Kotchman).

I also know that many like Freddie Freeman, and I won't deny that he's having success in the minors...but I'd just like to note that another one of our 'can't miss' prospects by the name of Andy Marte also had generally similar numbers to Freeman. I will hopefully feel differently once I get to see Freeman play (as when I saw some footage of Heyward, I was convinced he was different), but unfortunately I just can't be satisfied with laying my faith in a rookie.

The Braves have tried this before. Punchless 1B's and rookies who have massive power potential. It didn't work in the past. Smart people learn from their mistakes. Fortunately for Wren...most of our 1B misfortunes have been Schuerholz's mistakes, but it still doesn't warrant him making the same errors as his predecessor did.

So guys with very average minor league numbers can't possibly do better for a prolonged time in the majors and guys with great numbers in the minors probably will crash and burn once they get up there. Seems to me minor league numbers are meaningless from that deduction.

[jamminHANES]

I would love if people did not throw Schafer into that same mix.

[Wahoo]

Just to put things in perspective, Prado has been hotter than four foxes f***ing in a forest fire, and his OPS is still only at .840, which is great for a second baseman, but that's pretty average for a first baseman. In my opinion, it's pretty clear that this stretch he's been on is probably unsustainable. I think he projects out to be more of a .750 OPS guy, which is useful, especially as a super utility player, but not a regular at anywhere other than second base.

[jamminHANES]

Which is why he would just be a fill in for first base until Freeman is ready and as insurance for an injury to Chipper. You can live with some sub-par offense from 1B if you get plus offense from 2B, SS, C, and CF. Granted this would mean KJ has a come back year next season but if we can stay in the playoff hunt after having an outfield of Anderson, Schafer, and Francoeur as well as Kotchman and a bad KJ at first then we should be able to survive with Prado at 1B for a month or two next season.

[ChopTime]

Personally I'm a fan of this move. Nobody here could honestly think that Kotchman was in our long-term plans, he was never more than a guy to fill the gap between losing Teixeira and finding somebody else. You need your 1st baseman to hit for some power, because they aren't going to give you speed or versatility, and Kotchman hasn't done that. He hits for average, which has been nice, but bringing LaRoche in gives us some added power which we DESPERATELY need right now. Given the options, I think this was the best move Wren could have made to add a bat to the lineup before the deadline. In addition, I think we'll easily sign LaRoche to a 1-2 year deal (he'll be eager to stay in ATL, imo) and give Freddie Freeman plenty of time to mature.

[KB 34]

I can't see LaRoche signing less than a 3 year deal and I doubt the Braves are willing to commit that much time to him. There's no reason for Laroche to sign a shorter deal unless the market sucks and I doubt it will be that miserable for him. To me this is a clear sign the Braves didn't think Kotchman was the answer for 1B and decided to replace him now and get a little extra production in hopes of a playoff run opposed to seeing what his value was later.

[wordslayer©]

I was listening to an interview with Wren this morning and he was talking about the first base position:

"I like the trade we made for LaRoche, because he will give us some power that we need. If he struggles, then we may be in some trouble, because power guys at the corner are hard to find, but if things don't work out with LaRoche, we can trade for someone who has a high batting average and isn't prone to slumps, who will hold down the position until Freeman gets here. The worst thing that could happen is that we have to make a trade that could bring Kotchman back to the braves. "

That's what I like about the braves....they always have a backup plan.

[Dreamscape]

I am fine with LaRoche being a rental. I honestly see Nick Johnson signing. The value for Johnson might be weak enough in this economy because he's not a typical basher at first and has been injury-prone in his career. A two year deal for him with an option seems doable.

On Kotchman, for me, it's the Kevin Grysboski Disease. Not bad enough to get non-tendered, not good enough to deserve a raise in arbitration. But because of the first factor, you give him arbitration and bring him back, but he's just not a good option. Good teams cut players like Kotchman. There is no way he's a Red Sox next year whether he's traded or not.

[luvdembravos]

I am fine with LaRoche being a rental. I honestly see Nick Johnson signing. The value for Johnson might be weak enough in this economy because he's not a typical basher at first and has been injury-prone in his career. A two year deal for him with an option seems doable.



If we can’t get a power bat at first base during the off-season, I’d be very happy with the Braves acquiring the injury-prone Johnson and his career .399 OBP.

[Lauren T.]

If Nick Johnson does join the team, do you think he'll keep the pornstache?

[CanadaBravesFan]

If Nick Johnson does join the team, do you think he'll keep the pornstache?

Will we find a cap big enough to fit him?

[argentina brave]

If Nick Johnson does join the team, do you think he'll keep the pornstache?

nick johnson = ron jeremy