Free Agent Signings in MLB 2011 offseason

[bravos4evr]

Jose Reyes signed with the Marlins for 6 yr $106 mill

Mark Beurhle signed with Marlins for 4 yr $58 mill

Pujols is likely to resign with the Cards for around 9 yr $200 mill (give or take)

[The Rap]

Something tells me the Marlins are going to regret what they are doing sooner rather than later

[Chris_Moderato]

I tend to agree with Rap about the Marlins. I was going to ask what others thought of the Marlins recent spending spree on free agents.

[BFH]

I tend to agree with Rap about the Marlins. I was going to ask what others thought of the Marlins recent spending spree on free agents.

Reyes probably ends up being worthwhile....otherwise, Bell is going to blow up in their face, especially if their new park doesn't play big like their old park or how PETCO plays.

I'm out on Buehrle right now. I predicted it...not that I thought it was a necessarily good idea for them. At 4 years, I can imagine it turning ugly...but them soft-tossing lefties have long careers and Buehrle's only 32 or 33 years old. So....yeah.

A for Reyes, D- on Bell. I'll go C for Buehrle for now--could go either way depending how he fairs in his first year in the NL.

[Dreamscape]

Our old friend Nate McLouth will try to rekindle his early career magic in Pittsburgh. Here's hoping it works out wonderfully for him.

[BFH]

Our old friend Nate McLouth will try to rekindle his early career magic in Pittsburgh. Here's hoping it works out wonderfully for him.

Then maybe we can trade for him again! :D

[HomerTheBrave]

I tend to agree with Rap about the Marlins. I was going to ask what others thought of the Marlins recent spending spree on free agents.

It's funny how the club cried about not being able to afford a new stadium, making the taxpayers pick up the tab.....Now out of the blue,they have all this money to spend...
For that alone, I do hope it blows up bad for them...
To top it off, I hate that premodonna Reyes....

[BFH]

On the topic of the money...I'm not so sure it's about having the money on hand as it is projecting to be able to afford such spending.

When they were at the old stadium, they'd be lucky to top a high school baseball game's attendance on a daily basis. I'm guessing their hoping the move to the new stadium and the revamped roster fills the seats and makes such moves worthwhile.

If the fans don't turn out this season, I imagine their spending won't last beyond this season and another tear down and rebuild will be on the slate....starting with Hanley.

[The Rap]

Well keep in mind that this is the same club that went and spent a fortune and won then unloaded the majority of the team the very next year. As a longtime Braves fan I feel uncomfortable with all the moves made by our division competitors but I remain calm because we truly have a team that has great potential and we have to wait and see how they will jell.

[LeeTro]

Apparently the Angels have a whole lot of money saved up, because today was an expensive day for an already expensive team. They already had $102.5M on the payroll for just 10 players. They now add around $42M for Pujols and Wilson, and they still have Kendrick, Aybar, Morales, and Callaspo up for arbitration. Aybar and Morales will most likely be gone, and Callaspo may be if Trumbo does move to 3B. They still have holes, but you can't say they're not trying.

[Middle Man]

The Miami Marlins plucked another free agent prize Wednesday, reaching a deal with four-time All-Star pitcher Mark Buehrle for $58 million over four years.

What's everyone think about this deal? I think they're overpaying. He's 32 and he's certainly had a good career, but has he ever been great, other than throwing a no-hitter very few years? This reminds me of the Lowe deal, although Buehrle is a couple years younger, I think.

The Fishies are are really rolling the dice. I'll be shocked if the fans routinely turn out in huge numbers just because of a new stadium and a few new players. We'll see how it goes. It's not like they had mediocre attendance in their old place - attendance was waaaay worse than mediocre. I predict that the Marlins and their new stadium will be put up for sale on eBay within 3 years.

[Hobbes]

I predict that the Marlins and their new stadium will be put up for sale on eBay within 3 years.
With no reserve price.

And I agree. I find it hard to believe the new stadium will be generating such an increased revenue. It just doesn't seem like there is a solid fan base in Miami.

[quick]

With no reserve price.

And I agree. I find it hard to believe the new stadium will be generating such an increased revenue. It just doesn't seem like there is a solid fan base in Miami.

Perhaps the Marlins' season ticket sales have already enabled them to make these moves. Anybody know how these sales have gone?

Also, how are these contracts structured? Early, cheap (relatively) buyouts?

[Wahoo]

I think it speaks volumes about the Marlins franchise that they were the high bidder in the top 2 free agents and couldn't land either of them. Reyes is

[BFH]

Perhaps the Marlins' season ticket sales have already enabled them to make these moves. Anybody know how these sales have gone?

Also, how are these contracts structured? Early, cheap (relatively) buyouts?
Can't answer your first question about season ticket sales. So, sorry on that one.

Otherwise...info on the Buehrle breakdown hasn't been made available yet, but the Reyes and Bell ones have been posted on Cot's.


Reyes breakdown is as follows:

+ 6-years, $106M, plus 2018 option

12:$10M, 13:$10M, 14:$16M, 15:$22M, 16:$22M, 17:$22M, 18:$22M club option ($4M buyout)



The Bell contract is rather simple. $9M annually between 2012 and 2014. The 2015 option is worth $9M and may vest on performance based stipulations. There has been no report of what the stipulations for the vesting option are.


As for the Buehrle contract, I imagine it would be pretty straight forward like the Bell deal. $14.5M per year through the life of the contract. If it's back loaded, I'll highly question their sanity.

[Hobbes]

Reyes breakdown is as follows:

+ 6-years, $106M, plus 2018 option

12:$10M, 13:$10M, 14:$16M, 15:$22M, 16:$22M, 17:$22M, 18:$22M club option ($4M buyout)

One of the newspapers up here said Reyes intentionally had them backload his contract since they wouldn't give him a no-trade clause (team policy). This way it would be more difficult to trade him down the road.

They might wind up wishing they gave him the no-trade.

[BFH]

One of the newspapers up here said Reyes intentionally had them backload his contract since they wouldn't give him a no-trade clause (team policy). This way it would be more difficult to trade him down the road.

They might wind up wishing they gave him the no-trade.More difficult to trade is still easier to trade than a guy who takes the stance of "Nope...I ain't going anywhere but (Insert Name of Team here)." or someone who refuses to be traded so a general locale like the west or east coast.

If Reyes completely bombs a la Hampton did to the Rockies, you can find ways to eat enough salary to make a move. I believe Hampton waived a no-trade to come to Atlanta in that deal...but beside the point, Reyes at $22M is easier to trade than at $17M with the no-trade rights, imo.

But yeah...if he couldn't get the no-trade clause, I suppose that's the next best thing.

[IkeWagner]

AGon signs with the Brewers. Rosenthal says that Brewers fans are rejoicing that Betancourt has officially been replaced. Let's see how they feel a few months into the season.

[LeeTro]

AGon signs with the Brewers. Rosenthal says that Brewers fans are rejoicing that Betancourt has officially been replaced. Let's see how they feel a few months into the season.

Rejoicing may be a bit strong, but he is an improvement, sadly.

[bravos4evr]

Well any Braves/Reds JJ deal is prolly off as they just traded Yonder Alonso, Volquez , Yasmani Grandal and Brad Boxberger to the Padres for Mat Latos

Also Jimmy Rollins has agreed to a 3 yr $33 mill deal with a vesting option for a 4th year at same $$$.

[The Rap]

It isnlt that the Marlins don't have a fan base. It's just that there is so much more to do down there than sit at a baseball game.

[Middle Man]

Boras is funny. I wonder how much he pays his "sources" to plant these stories.

06:55 AM ET 12.21 | For weeks, it has appeared to be a foregone conclusion that Andruw Jones would return to the Bronx next season, but that's no longer the certainty it once seemed. The Yankees have stayed in touch with Jones' agent, Scott Boras, but a source said the two sides have not made much progress despite the mutual desire for a reunion. The source added that "several" other teams have expressed interest in the 34-year-old outfielder - one of which is believed to be the rival Red Sox.
New York Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/andruw-jones-boston-red-sox-article-1.994697)

[bravos4evr]

Beltran has agreed to a 2 year deal with the Cards, so there goes that pipe dream

[BFH]

Beltran has agreed to a 2 year deal with the Cards, so there goes that pipe dream

Might be a good time to jump into discussion with the Cards and see if they would now be willing to trade Allen Craig, even if he's going to miss the beginning of the season. I know they say they'll move Beltran to center to accommodate Craig once he's back, but it just seems like a massive waste of resources/talent to do it that way when they already have Jon Jay on the roster.

[The Rap]

Interesting thinking BFH. But isn't it the "usual way" that a player doesnlt get traded until he is completely healthy or close to it?

[BFH]

Interesting thinking BFH. But isn't it the "usual way" that a player doesnlt get traded until he is completely healthy or close to it?

It probably is.

I think it just depends on the nature of the injury, to be honest.

If a guy is coming back from something severe like a torn ACL or a torn labrum, then it'd probably 100% take the "usual way" in progression where they'd have to return, rehab and re-establish value for them to be traded because their value is basically at rock bottom and no team will 1) pay up for such a risk and 2) take on said risk.

If it's something minor like cleaning up loose bodies in an elbow or removing some frayed cartilage in a knee, I don't think it'd hinder a trade at all.

From what I understand, Craig's surgery is somewhere in between the two. He got hurt running into a fence somewhere and got that knee banged up pretty bad that he had to be DL'd for it, but obviously he was able to play on it as he was activated in time to play the postseason and play a key role in the Cardinals' championship run.

I read he had some screws put in his knee to stablize the joint and he'll be out 4-6 months from the time (around Thanksgiving) of the surgery. Something I read on him recently had him quoted as saying the 6 months is a "worst case scenario" kind of deal where there's a set back, and that he should be back on his feet and ready to go in 4-5 months. That'd still keep him out almost all of spring training at least and maybe into the first month of the season, but I haven't read anything yet where the Cardinals don't expect him back at full strength early on in the season...which makes the Beltran addition a head scratcher to me, personally.

I mean, I see why Beltran is attractive to them. They just lost Pujols, so they need to replace the production...and who better than Beltran in this market? Yet...it must be a testament to how much they distrust Craig...or at least how much they distrust Jon Jay (my money would be on Craig, though...as Beltran's not a true CF anymore). It's a valid discussion...and I'm actually curious if any Cardinals fans are wondering what's going on internally...or if they're just happy to have a stacked outfield now.

To me, if I'm in the Cardinals front office I'm looking to flip one of Jon Jay or Allen Craig at this point. They have some questions at 2B that need to be answered unless they feel they've gained enough offense through Beltran to offset the loss of Pujols that they can afford to start a guy like Schu. Just saying. Prado for Craig (and maybe a filler piece) is a really interesting proposition.

[The Rap]

I doubt we can get Craig and I don't want Jay. But to me what the Cardinals are doing is just trying to replace quality with quantity by spreading it around to a bunch of players. The key for them is really whether Wainright is back 100%.

[BFH]

I doubt we can get Craig and I don't want Jay. But to me what the Cardinals are doing is just trying to replace quality with quantity by spreading it around to a bunch of players. The key for them is really whether Wainright is back 100%.

I wouldn't say doubt, but like I said it just depends on how the Cardinals view Beltran. If they wrongly think he can be an everyday centerfielder then fine...they can keep Craig and sufferthrough his defense out there. If they view Craig as a bench piece, they'd be wasting immense talent but it'd probably Be warranted between Berkman and Beltran and that'd probably be fine...but still a waste.

And still...if they've felt they've replaced Pujols enough to start the likes of Schumaker, Descalso and others at 2B, then that's fine as well.

Just when I put my GM shoes on and look at their team I see an opportunity to improve at 2B and Prado is the best of the remaining options there right now. And if the only thing that's kept him from leaving Atlanta has been a major league talent as I mused earlier, Allen Craig is a piece I could move if I had to in order to grab him.

[The Rap]

I think Prado for Craig makes a lot of sense and just wonder if FW isn't waiting for Craig's health concerns to be resolved. I really wonder if Hudson and Hanson are healthy what we can do with our starting pitching. Our kids seem to be ready so the idea of sending them out for more seasoning is discounted in my thinking. But we have a choice with this;

Hanson, Hudson, Beachy, Jurrjens, Minor, Teheran, DelGado, Medlen

so we either go with at least a 7 man rotation or we improve other aspects f our team dramatically.

[BFH]

I think Prado for Craig makes a lot of sense and just wonder if FW isn't waiting for Craig's health concerns to be resolved. I really wonder if Hudson and Hanson are healthy what we can do with our starting pitching. Our kids seem to be ready so the idea of sending them out for more seasoning is discounted in my thinking. But we have a choice with this;

Hanson, Hudson, Beachy, Jurrjens, Minor, Teheran, DelGado, Medlen

so we either go with at least a 7 man rotation or we improve other aspects f our team dramatically.

You actually could be onto something with the 'waiting for Craig's health' thing.

One avenue this could go down is trading Jair Jurrjens for a package of prospects and "holding onto" Martin Prado while adding our bench pieces and minor league insurance fodder.

Couple that with Wren's willingness to head to spring training to "see how things go" with some of the positions, then holding on trading Prado until then makes sense. See how shortstop sorts out between Pastornicky and which ever veteran is brought in to keep him the straight and steady, watch how Craig's knee progresses and wait for the Cardinals to figure out that Skip Schumaker is not going to be your league average 2B. If there's a need to make a move from their end...then make the swap. If not, then Prado stays put in left field and the Cardinals head into their season with extreme outfield depth and a 2B situation their seemingly comfortable with.

[The Rap]

Well the key for us fans is to not get too antsy regarding a trade for trades sake. A key is for us to find out how serious Craig's injury is. I believe Pardo for Craig even up sounds right but am willing to bet the Cardinals will demand more so I would throw in Hoover.

[bravos4evr]

Well the key for us fans is to not get too antsy regarding a trade for trades sake. A key is for us to find out how serious Craig's injury is. I believe Pardo for Craig even up sounds right but am willing to bet the Cardinals will demand more so I would throw in Hoover.

I agree, in fact I posted (probably to deaf ears) on DOB's blog that if you compare this opening day 2012 lineup:

Bourn
Prado
Chipper
Mac
Uggla
Freeman
Heyward
Pastornicky

to this opening day 2011 one:

Schafer
Prado
Chip
Mac
Uggla
Heyward
Freeman
Gonz


and replacing Lowe with Minor/Tehran and Linebrink with Medlen that this team is already better than the 2011 team and IMO, is prolly worth 3 or 4 wins in the first half of the season than the 2011 team was.

You add in the new hitting coach and video guy and I can see this team competing for a 100 win season as is.

[The Rap]

Sounds a bit optimistic but I think I am going to write a piece on my blog about this.

[The Rap]

FYI, I just wrote a blog about this.

[quick]

I agree, in fact I posted (probably to deaf ears) on DOB's blog that if you compare this opening day 2012 lineup:

Bourn
Prado
Chipper
Mac
Uggla
Freeman
Heyward
Pastornicky

to this opening day 2011 one:

Schafer
Prado
Chip
Mac
Uggla
Heyward
Freeman
Gonz


and replacing Lowe with Minor/Tehran and Linebrink with Medlen that this team is already better than the 2011 team and IMO, is prolly worth 3 or 4 wins in the first half of the season than the 2011 team was.

You add in the new hitting coach and video guy and I can see this team competing for a 100 win season as is.


We still need to know how Hanson, JJ and Huddy recover from their injuries to know if have a decent team. We do not know how Medlen is going to perform. The line-up you show looks okay, but frankly the starters and middle relievers are big questions right now and the answers must wait until spring training. I am worried that our great pitching strength may be iffy for a while with all the injuries and that is likely why we are not moving pitching for a LF now. I hate waiting but I see no other path for the Braves to take.

[bravos4evr]

Glass half empty guy eh?

[Andy G.]

Glass half empty guy eh?
For realz.

Congrats on your Saints, by the way. I hate you. :p

[The Rap]

With the Packers' OL woes I don't think there is a team that can stop New Orleans from going all the way. The only danger is some lesser team getting hot and pulling off a miracle. It has happened before and football can be a weird game sometimes.

[bravos4evr]

For realz.

Congrats on your Saints, by the way. I hate you. :p

Unless the Rams can pull a huge upset it appears you will get your chance at revenge in a couple weeks in the playoffs!


btw, I am skeptical anyone can go to Lambeau Field and beat the Packers. I think the Saints could beat them in the dome, but not up there. Not in january!

[The Rap]

I see your point but the cold weather doesnlt compensate for a hole at LT which guards Rodgers' blind side.

[bravos4evr]

Though not a free agent signing (we don't really have a trade thread). The Marlins are apparently close to acquiring Zambrano from the Cubs. lol
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/01/marlins-close-to-acquiring-carlos-zambrano-.html

I expected this and I must admit that watching the personality zoo over in Miami with Z, Gullien , Reyes and Hanley should be damn fine entertainment. Before it develops into an ugly ugly powderkeg (probably equally entertaining) ! :)

[The Rap]

The Marlins did that because it wll only cost them 2.5 dollars and now we will find out how much crazy you can get for that amount

[HomerTheBrave]

We still need to know how Hanson, JJ and Huddy recover from their injuries to know if have a decent team. We do not know how Medlen is going to perform. The line-up you show looks okay, but frankly the starters and middle relievers are big questions right now and the answers must wait until spring training. I am worried that our great pitching strength may be iffy for a while with all the injuries and that is likely why we are not moving pitching for a LF now. I hate waiting but I see no other path for the Braves to take.

You don't know how Medlen is going to perform? Where were you last Sept?
Yes, Huddy and Hanson are question marks, but we still have JJ,Beachy,Minor and Teheran.....that's a pretty decent "just in case" staff

[The Rap]

Add to that Randall Delgado who always seems to be the forgotten man and happens to be a great prospect.

[bravos4evr]

And the pitchers in the NL rejoice more as Prince has signed with the Tigers for a reported 9 years!!!!! Take that Gnats!!

[Hobbes]

9 years is crazy.

[KB 34]

The Vernon Wells trade proved teams can sometimes make really stupid free agent signings and get away with them. I don't see a deal over 5 years being practical for Fielder. I'm impressed Boras managed to get that huge deal. I figured it was time for Boras to get a pie in his face at the negotiating table.

[FrankEC]

9 years $214 million is asinine. He is not worth anywhere close to that.

[The Rap]

There is great human drama in Prince signing with Detroit. The kid has a fierce hatred for his father and now goes where the father made his glory. The kid might go apesht this year with the bat.

[BFH]

Lost in all the hoopla of the Fielder signing in Detroit is the defensive alignment now. I thought the Tigers didn't give one damn about defense BEFORE signing Prince. Now it's confirmed that they have absolutely no belief in defense...as Cabrera is now slated to play 3B for them now and in the future.

I dunno. I guess it is one way to try and win now, though. Out-hit everyone now and in the next few years....then worry about Prince, Miggy and V-Mart getting old and overpaid later, I guess.

[The Rap]

Funny because that was a main topic running through my roto friends for the past few days. If you are playing roto stay away from Porcello, Scherzer, or anyone besides Verlander and even he will see a small rise in his ERA this year.

[Chris_Moderato]

Well, the Nationals signed Edwin Jackson today, which means they're the new favorites in the East.

[Wahoo]

Well, the Nationals signed Edwin Jackson today, which means they're the new favorites in the East.

Yeah and the guy has a career ERA+ 97 ( below average). Dude is average at best and yet the media thinks 9 mil for his services. Today's baseball writers are just a bunch of f*cking idiots. I can't even enjoy the baseball hot stove because the morons are hyping moves like this (I am assuming to generate circulation) and writing bullsh*t rumors like the Braves offering JJ and Prado for Adam Jones only for the Orioles to turn it down. And then you have other jackasses writing about how Jorge Posada is a f*cking HOFer. Jesus where can a guy go to get some thoughtful, intelligent, insightful baseball news and analysis anymore? They are all just a bunch of propaganda machines (and in taking about the national guys).

[The Rap]

I agree. Best example is 'Edwin Jackson pitched a no-hitter last year." But nary a mention that he walked like a gazillion guys during that same game.

[Wahoo]

So yeah...GTS...the Cardinals just inked Yadier Molina to an extension. 5 years 75 mil. An option for a 6th year at 15 mil. Thats right for Yadier Molina. That's all kinds of stupid. The guy turns 30 this year. I get that he's good defensively but this totally effs the market up. If I am Frank Wren, I am getting on the horn to the Cards GM and telling him to f*ck off. Now even with a team friendly deal you figure B-MAC's deal is gonna have to avg about 18 mil. On the open market he'd have to be worth 20 mil per.

[bravos4evr]

Honestly, before Molina signed I expected the price for Mac to be 5 years $90 mill with an option year... I don' really think this changes it much.

[Wahoo]

Honestly, before Molina signed I expected the price for Mac to be 5 years $90 mill with an option year... I don' really think this changes it much.

It sure as hell does. 5 years at 90 would be a discount based on this deal.

[Agent-X-]

It sure as hell does. 5 years at 90 would be a discount based on this deal.

One idiotic team can't wreck it for the whole league though. Is there really someone out there willing to fork over $18 million a year for Brian McCann?

[Dreamscape]

I don't think it does too much to McCann. Other catchers like Mike Napoli and Russell Martin, on the other hand, have more leverage. Joe Mauer's $184M deal didn't screw up the market too much either. Atlanta is still stuck in the same position. How much do you give a defensively suspect hitting catcher who will turn 30 before the first season of his next long-term contract? Going five years is so dangerous with catchers, especially after they hit 30.

A lot can happen between now and the end of the World Series in 2013 so the particulars aren't too concerning. As much as I love McCann, I just can't commit to five guaranteed years.

[bravos4evr]

Did you know that UZR just added catcher blocks? This addition made McCann the 2nd best catcher in baseball defensively and gave him almost 1 more WAR

[bravos4evr]

I don't think it does too much to McCann. Other catchers like Mike Napoli and Russell Martin, on the other hand, have more leverage. Joe Mauer's $184M deal didn't screw up the market too much either. Atlanta is still stuck in the same position. How much do you give a defensively suspect hitting catcher who will turn 30 before the first season of his next long-term contract? Going five years is so dangerous with catchers, especially after they hit 30.

A lot can happen between now and the end of the World Series in 2013 so the particulars aren't too concerning. As much as I love McCann, I just can't commit to five guaranteed years.

I would, I'd give him 5 years and an option year and I will tell you why,


Reason One :one thing franchises must worry about aside from payroll, winning success, attendance ,TV deals and the Farm is the perception of their franchise by players and other GM's. If you get the reputation for being unwilling to sign your own superstars it makes it difficult to entice others to play for you.
It also makes you a target franchise during no-trade negotiations. Players who sign extensions with limited no trade agreements are more likely to list The Braves if they think that there is little chance of a re-sign later. Guys don't like instability. They would rather stay where they broke in and then either re-sign there or re-sign where they get traded to. Most don't want to play for 3 teams in 3 years if they can help it.

reason 2: Mac will be 35 at the end of the deal, if you look at the history of great hitting catchers this is where they tend to break down. I think signing him through his age 35 season would be a great investment and would also be good for fan morale and attendance. This is going to be his team soon. I think they need to push him as they tried to push Frenchy. Keep him until he's 35 and then either sign him again cheaper or let him go to the AL and DH.

Reason 3: Replacing his production from age 31-33 (if he indeed breaks down early at say 33) will be very very difficult. Let us consider the teams at the moment and make assumptions on the future:

2014(if mac isn't re-signed)

1b-freeman-arb $1.5mill
2b- Uggla-$14mill
SS-Pastornicky or Simmons -pre arb
3b-Terdo/Prado/Salcedo/Free Agent- anywhere from min- $8mill
C-Bethancourt?- minimum Mac- $16-$18mill
LF- Swisher- $12mill
CF-Bourn/BJ Upton - $10-$12mill
RF- Heyward arb $2.5mill

Rotation
Hanson arb
Beachy cheap
Minor cheap
Tehran Cheap
Delgado cheap


pen
Kimbrel cheap
Venters arb
Vizcaino cheap
varvaro-cheap
medlen- arb
? cheap
? cheap

bench

who knows, doubt much $$$ spent there


I bet this team WITH MAC doesn't even meet present day payroll (if the bench equaled the same as it does now I mean)

If Bethancourt is the second coming of Mac and cheaper...well it makes it much more difficult, but thats something I have yet to see. he looks like a good catcher, but not a superstar catcher. IMO, if we dump Mac, we would need to go after much bigger bat for SS or 3b than what we will probably have.

What I am saying i that the team will have the $$$ to sign him long term, and I think that it's in the best interest of the franchise to do so. If you can't re-sign Brian friggin McCann, well who can you re-sign?

[The Rap]

I am surprised no one has mentioned Christian Betancourt (and what our plans are for him) or the new guy Edgerrs (sp?) whon looks a lot like Javy and is the talk of the spring. O'Flaherty pitched to him the other day and was really pleasantly surprised because he said that usually oitcher are ahead of the hitters at this point but that the key was constantly hitting the ball way over the LF fence. The kid hasa hiostory similar to Josh Hamilton having spent the last few years in rehab.

[Andy G.]

I am surprised no one has mentioned Christian Betancourt (and what our plans are for him) or the new guy Edgerrs (sp?) whon looks a lot like Javy and is the talk of the spring. O'Flaherty pitched to him the other day and was really pleasantly surprised because he said that usually oitcher are ahead of the hitters at this point but that the key was constantly hitting the ball way over the LF fence. The kid hasa hiostory similar to Josh Hamilton having spent the last few years in rehab.
I don't mean to sound rude, but you've mentioned Bethancourt a few times over the offseason, and every time it seems like you overstate his prospect status as this point in time. He has potential to develop into a really good player, but right now the more likely scenario is that he never even comes close to being as productive and as consistent as Brian McCann. It's fine to mention him, but it's not surprising if his name doesn't come up in this discussion, because as of right now his presence in our minor league system should have little to no influence over the plans to extend Brian McCann. By the time McCann's contract runs out, that could very well change, but it's too early to talk about him as being a "special" player.

Also, the other guy you're talking about is Evan Gattis. He didn't spend a few years in rehab, but he does have a pretty interesting story. As for your implication that he could also have an impact on the Braves' decision to either sign McCann to an extension or let him leave in free agency, I'm sorry to say but I think you drastically overvalue any prospect with the least bit of hype. Gattis has A LOT to prove and is an extreme long shot to be an everyday catcher in the majors, though I am rooting for him.

[Dreamscape]

Rap, you buy into "talk of the camp" type stuff too much. Remember Ed Lucas? Travis Wilson? Trey Hodges?

I watched Bethancourt last year. I have some considerable concerns about his ability. The AFL has a habit of making aggressive prospects look better than they really are. In a pitcher's league like the Carolina League, he was fairly over-matched. He has great bat control and got a lot of little dink hits or bloopers, but showed no patience or power. Until he learns at least some patience, I think it's way premature to put him up as a possible replacement to Brian McCann.

[bravos4evr]

You say this Deam, then turn around and say we shouldn't re-sign Mac.....

[The Rap]

Dream and Gilly, I wasn't swallowing any hype at all but just bringing up another name who sounds interesting. I believe we re-sign Brian 1) because he is terrific 2) because he and Chipper are the the team leaders and 3) because he will probably be the best option anyway.

Also, you guys might be forgetting that I live in New York and root for the Knicks for about 5 decades. So if there is anything I have learned is never to say never.

[Wahoo]

Of course this screws up the market for McCann. It's basic economics. The Mauer contract was foolish and could largely be viewed as an outlier and wreck less spending. But in a market where there are very few stud catchers the Molina contract suddenly validates the Mauer contract and clearly establishes McCann's value as somewhere between the two. Honestly I believe it's above mid-point just because he is that much better than Molina.

As Dream touched on this REALLY helps a guy like Russell Martin who was probablt looking a 4 year deal for 9 per. He's very comparable to Molina and I think his value skyrockets because of it.

People ask who would give McCann 18 mil per? I think any of the big market AL clubs would consider it considering he's younger than Molina and Martin. I honestly could see the Yankees making a push for him and could easily give him 20 mil per having the DH to fall back on.

With the presence of the Union involved, McCann is gonna get paid. I'm sure he wants to stay in Atlanta but there will be dollars in play and I am sure he will feel pressure from the Union from him to make sure his deal at least approaches his market value and I think with this deal his market value will pretty clearly hit at least 5/90.

We should be thankful that Boras isn't his agent. But there is no way this Molina deal hasn't increased the value of his next contract but at least 20%.

[KB 34]

I've long contended that McCann is horribly underrated by Braves fans. The Braves last three catchers have been Javy Lopez, Johnny Estrada, and Brian McCann. All were All Stars with the Braves and pretty much unbelievable. To keep McCann the Braves will have to pay up. I could see a team giving him 7 years $130 million or so. As Wahoo pointed out, he could serve as a DH some in the American League and further his effective lifetime. Really good and consistent catchers are simply hard to find. The chance to get one will tempt teams to open their checkbooks big time.

The starting point for negotiations with McCann is 5 years and $75 million. I don't think that would be enough, but 5 years $85 million would probably be a fair hometown discount. I have no idea if the Braves would be willing to make this deal. A new owner who wants to build a successful franchise would pay up without thinking twice. At this point the Braves have a corporate owner with minimal motivation to win. With such a large contract there's always the possibility for something to go bad. I can't imagine wanting many deals like this when a sale date is close. However, it would also be troublesome for fans to realize how much they undervalued McCann because he got a big deal elsewhere. Bottom line, I say it's 50/50 McCann stays or goes. If he does stay, I'm going 80/20 that it's a really generous hometown discount deal.

[Dreamscape]

You say this Deam, then turn around and say we shouldn't re-sign Mac.....
The two aren't all that connected in my book. You don't have to sign a guy just because you don't have any in-house options. There are ways to go get a guy. My problem comes with signing any players for more than four years, let alone a player at a position with a higher chance of injury. Ask the Twins how the Joe Mauer deal is working out so far.

I'm not against resigning McCann, but I am very cautious going five years.

[bravos4evr]

Ahhhh, guess I misconstrued you post.

I think he will be worth it, and I think he will be worth it on a 5 year deal with a 6th year team option.

[BFH]

Regarding McCann and how the overpayment on Yadier affects the Braves.


Here's my opinion...and take it as lightly and ridiculously as you want to...

...but I say just sign him to whatever kind of extension it takes to sign McCann next winter before he enters his free agent season in 2013.


Okay...so first of all, this is a serious question. Has there been any statement from McCann or indication from his side of things that suggests he won't sign a hometown discount?

I mean, yes...he certainly doesn't want to get ripped off by being paid less and the players's union will likely urge him to maximize his earnings....but is there anything that suggests he'll string the Braves out and squeeze every penny out of them? Is there absolutely no hope that he decides that $15M/year on a catcher is the top dollar for the position and signs a similar $15M/year deal?

Second, and probably most importantly, is I'm willing to project 2 or 3 years down the line in terms of the Braves ownership situation. As of this past winter, I know that Liberty Media has gained the right to sell the team whenever they see fit. I figure they will hold for now just to make it seem as it's not some type of short sale for profit...but I do think they'll be selling the team within the next three years. I'm willing to hedge my bets and go all in on the next owner being someone who will take interest in reinvesting the team's earnings back into the on-field product. It will allow the Braves to not only keep McCann, but allow them to lock up the others who will be getting expensive at the time as well (Heyward, Freeman, Hanson, Teheran, etc).

With that in mind, I make the above statement of signing McCann to whatever it takes.

Yes, I am aware, Rap, that we have a young catcher by the name of Christian Bethancourt. Yes, I do have hope for him. However, he will absolutley not be ready by the end of 2013. That's almost a guarantee at his rate of development. The only way Bethancourt can change that opinion of mine is if he ends the 2012 season by getting a cup of tea at Gwinnett after dominating A and AA level. We'll revisit this after the 2012 season to reassess my opinion of Bethancourt's ETA.

Thus...signing McCann is of the utmost importance. If it takes $90M over 5 years with a 6th season option, do it. It'll cost us some guys up front like Martin Prado when he reaches free agency. It'll likely mean not re-signing Michael Bourn. Will probably mean we need to trade an arbitration eligible middle reliever or two down the line. But I'm willing to bet we'll be able to afford an $18M/year catcher 3 years from now under a new owner. If not, then...well, I'm sure we'll be able to find an AL suitor for him when Bethancourt is ready for the majors at that time and it's time to lock up other free-agents-to-be.

[KB 34]

BFH has a pretty good point there and it further makes me want to sign McCann. I thought the Blue Jays would be screwed for a long time when they gave Vernon Wells that horribly back loaded deal. However, they kept him around for the dirt cheap years and then shipped him off to a sucker. If worse came to worse with McCann the Braves could probably market him as a DH and find an investor/sucker. I don't think the risk is very high.

In terms of letting players go, Bourn didn't cost the Braves very much and I never saw him as a long term investment. He was never a high priority target for the Braves and simply fell in place. A good leadoff hitter and CF for pocket change is a great investment for any team. This wasn't the first time Wren made a move like this. Uggla was acquired as well because the price was tiny. I'd gladly take the draft picks for Bourn and move on. Prado is another player I wouldn't lose sleep over losing. He's injury prone and a versatile player on the field, but not a superstar. Championships are won building around players like McCann, not Prado. If he has to go to keep McCann, who cares? Bring back Infante and hope to get lucky a second time.