The Let's Throw in The Towel and Plan for 2010 Thread!

[bravos4evr]

I've officially done it...... I've thrown in the towel on 2009. I've decided to start this thread for folks to start posting their plans on what FW should do to start assembling the parts for 2010 and beyond.

I'll go first!

Number one I think we need to look at keeping Frenchy until he hits a hot streak, even if it means until this offseason. His value can't drop any more and if he can hit a hot second half, he could really turn out to be worthwhile for the team after all( in a trade I mean!!) Of course if he can hit like .280 with a .330 OBP and a .460 SLG until July 31, get rid of him then!!!!If he never gets hot, then in the offseason I think we give him the option to go to winter ball to work on it and then AAA or he gets the gate. He's a nice face for the team and all, but If I see him swing at strike three with runners on again I'm gonna throw poop at the screen. Maybe not even my own...

Number 2 - I think we need to put Mclouth in LF permanently. then we bring Shafer up, put him in CF and send GA out of town on a rail with Norton. We then fill the bench up with Canizares and Brandon Jones. Maybe try and trade Diaz at the deadline as of now his value is minimal but he does have some. GA will never have any value again. Nor will Norton.

Number 3-We need to bat KJ in one spot and keep him there for 30 days. If he still isn't hitting, then i think Prado wins his job and perhaps we start evaluating if perhaps we need to think about moving him .

Number 4-We trade Soriano AND Gonzo to the highest bidder. Unless we have an interest in re-signing one or both ( which I doubt) then send them to the Yankees.

Number 5- We need to either move Escobar for a similarly under control outfield bat with similar or better production ( OF bat could have better production than escobar but more value due to the position differences) or we need to tell him it's his job and Bobby can just deal with it.

Number 6- We need to shop Vazquez ( who is pitching better than his record by far) but not recklessly even if we wait til winter . Those players we receive need to be a combo of power hitting corner OF'ers and potential closers. Even if most of them are just good AA or AAA talent.Hudson's fate will be determined after he comes back.


Number 7, I think they need to retire Bobby Cox(after this season), fire TP and bring in a Wellman or someone else from the minors to be the hitting instructor. Someone who teaches patience at the plate and the virtues of OBP. The Manager really depends on who's available after this season, but i really love Jim leyland's style of " I'm the !@#$%& boss, do your job" style. His players seem to like it too!

In closing, I know I have mentioned trading(or trying to) Vazquez,KJ, ( I don't advocate trading Escobar unless he brings an under control RF bat) Frenchy, Diaz, Soriano, and Gonzales. I'm not advocating a fire sale really, but rather a stockpiling of prospects and/or ML players, that we can use to either fill the gaps or use as trade bait of our own to get what we need. I also think that, aside from the Bullpen, trading these players doesn't change what our needs are now! We can all agree that Prado can't really do worse than KJ has been doing ( and I am a KJ defender, but his streakiness is beginning to get old with me too!) RF is a hole, Vazquez has lots of value,our two end of the game pen arms have lots of value and are lame ducks. I think it's a no brainer really!

What can we get for all that ? I have no clue. I will leave that up to BFH and the rest of you to decide!


I really really think we need to move all of the players I listed. Frenchy and the 3 pitchers most of all.

I think I wouldn't pick up Hudson's option either. I would try and renegotiate for less and see if he bites, this offseason is gonna be similar to the last one, contract $$$ wise.

[bravos4evr]

My potential 2010 lineup

Schafer
Escobar
Chipper
RF bat
McCann
Mclouth
Kotchman
Prado(prolly another 2b option via trade, maybe brian roberts, then swap he and shafer)

2010 rotation
Hudson( if he signs after we decline his option)
Jurrjens
Lowe
Hanson
Kawakami
Medlen ( winner between he and KK if Hudson stays)









Oh and one more thing, I have noticed something very interesting about Frank Wren. The man is one hell of a shrewd trader. I don't think I hate any trade he's made and the Jurrjens and Mclouth trades alone give me confidence in the man.

However, he really doesn't seem to be able to deal with the players themselves once they get to the big team and stink it up. It's like we really need him as a trade advisor or something.

[IkeWagner]

I'm so sick of this. Next year next year next year; that's all we have anymore. Damn, losing sucks.

[Dreamscape]

I don't know what the financial outlook will be in 2010...Cot has us around $44M, but I'm not sure about the validity of that number. It may not include Chipper's extension and probably doesn't include McLouth or Hudson. Either way, that will play a large role in any plans. For the thread...here are a list of interesting names who are a free agent or have an option year next year.

1B
Nick Johnson
Adam LaRoche

OF
Rick Ankiel
Vladimir Guerrero
Magglio Ordonez
(I left Bay and Holliday off for obvious reasons)

There are also a lot of potentially solid bullpen types available beyond Gonzo and Soriano. If you allow both to go, you really have to focus on the bullpen next offseason and try to add a bat to the mix. That's why any trade that includes Gonzo and Soriano should also include young power arms. Teams like the Devil Rays and Rangers could be great targets.

I also think Medlen has a key piece of the puzzle in the pen would be the right way to go. That would leave a spot open for Vazquez, technically, but I don't see it being fincially viable to have so much money in the bullpen. Rather, the fifth spot could be open for another battle either with young guns brought in via trades or a one-year contract guy like Justin Duchscherer.

[Middle Man]

I'm actually feeling fairly optimistic about the Braves - not this season obviously, but a year or two down the road. The worse they play this year, the more optimistic I get, since it increases the chances we'll deal some guys who are probably out the door after this season or next anyway. The budget is the big question mark that we really can only speculate about for now.

I know teams don't typically deal with contract situations during the season, but I'd love for the Braves to see if they can get either Gonzales or Soriano to agree to a favorable extension - and then trade the other. I'm not real crazy about the idea of letting both go. That's a major blow to a pen that is already lacking in depth. We'd be practically rebuilding the pen from scratch, and that is a recipe for disaster. They could wait until the off-season to try and sign one, but it seems like the price is more likely to be bid up at that point.

We really need Schafer to bounce back in 2010 and be a half decent hitter. If we can pencil in Schafer and McLouth, we 2/3 of the way towards a pretty decent all-around outfield. Find a big power bat and .... shazam.

[Hobbes]

I know teams don't typically deal with contract situations during the season, but I'd love for the Braves to see if they can get either Gonzales or Soriano to agree to a favorable extension - and then trade the other. I'm not real crazy about the idea of letting both go. That's a major blow to a pen that is already lacking in depth. We'd be practically rebuilding the pen from scratch, and that is a recipe for disaster. They could wait until the off-season to try and sign one, but it seems like the price is more likely to be bid up at that point.
I agree with this. While neither guy would be particularly cheap, it would be a tall order to replace both of them in the offseason as well as fix the rest of the pen's woes plus fix the offense.

[slowride]

At least wait until the all star break!!!

[CharlotteBrave]

Before I post my opinion, do you guys know why Ned Yost was fired in the middle of the season last year?

I always thought he'd be the man to replace Bobby, but if he did something sketchy obviously his name is not longer on the list.

[CharlotteBrave]

I agree with this. While neither guy would be particularly cheap, it would be a tall order to replace both of them in the offseason as well as fix the rest of the pen's woes plus fix the offense.

x2... I keep rememberring how atrocious our pen was and has been, and I can't help but remember that playoff series in Houston. Thinking about it still gives me shutters. We need to keep as many of our talented relievers as possible, because a shaky pen (for me at least) is the most frustrating thing I've experienced as a fan.

Also; I know there's probably a good reason, but why has no one mentioned Hermida? Is he not an option for the Braves? He's a solid bat, young, and he's also from Atlanta right? Or what about Carloss Lee? Will he be an option?

[Middle Man]

Before I post my opinion, do you guys know why Ned Yost was fired in the middle of the season last year?

I always thought he'd be the man to replace Bobby, but if he did something sketchy obviously his name is not longer on the list.

I always thought he was pretty good. As far as I know, his only problem was a team that didn't meet expectations, although I seem to remember some stuff about him not getting along with some of the players too. I'd prefer either him or Fredi González over TP.

[bravestud]

I agree with a lot of bravos's thoughts. The moves I would make today are to release Garret Anderson, move McLouth to left and recall Schafer to play center field everyday. We need to get Schafer ready for a starting role in 2010, and I still believe the best way to do that is for him to continue to take his lumps against major league pitching. Trade Francoeur for whatever we can get between now and the deadline and play Diaz and Jones in right the rest of the season.

I would look to trade Kotchman as well. I don't dislike Kotchman, but he's not a fit in our lineup. We simply don't have enough power to have a first baseman who can't hit over the fence. Upgrading this position would be a top priority if I were Wren this offseason. In the meantime, I'm intrigued by Canizares and would like to see us give him a long look. While he's limited defensively and is pushing 30, his minor league numbers can't be ignored. He's the type of all-hit, no-field guy who could be huge for us off the bench and as a spot-starter next year.

Keep KJ and Yunel in the middle of the infield. KJ's trade value is likely lower than what he's worth due to his bad start. I know there's some temptation to get rid of Yunel because of his on- and off-field antics, but a shortstop who has a career OPS pushing .800 is too valuable to give up, unless it's in a trade to bring us an impact bat at first base or right field.

A lot of what we do with our rotation will depend on how well Hudson pitches in the latter part of this season. If he looks like he's back to form, I'd definitely pick his option up, because a healthy Tim Hudson is still the best pitcher we have. I would love to keep Vazquez, but I just don't see how it's going to be feasible. Jurrjens, Hanson and Lowe are locked into the '10 rotation barring injury, and Kawakami's age and contract make him very unlikely to be traded. That means we almost have to trade Vazquez. One of the biggest things we can hope for the rest of this year is for him to keep up his great work, because he could fetch us a very handsome return this offseason.

I'd rebuild the bullpen around Gonzalez and Medlen. Soriano should definitely be traded. Get whatever we can for Bennett, Moylan and O'Flaherty, even if it's just a bag of balls, and get long looks at guys like Acosta, Logan, Luis Valdez and Jo-Jo Reyes and see if they can't help fill out the bullpen next year.

[bravos4evr]

How long is Swisher still under contract? I wonder if we could move Soriano for Swisher and put him in RF. Then move Frenchy for a pen arm .

I can't see us moving Kotchman because the guy does get on base and is a really good number 6 type hitter. In fact , it's no coincidence IMO that we started really stinking when he got hurt!

[bravos4evr]

Well BFH it's cuz Bobby has lost it. He needs to go. I want a OBP based managerial staff to come in and start really pushing the idea of working counts and taking walks. I want a mgr who assigns roles in the pen and sticks to them. ( you are the closer, you are the 8th inning, you are the LOOGY, you are long relief, you bennett you suck) you know stuff like that !

[Devil Wears Prado]

IF you want to plan for the future like this, you ought to shop Chipper Jones for a couple of high-tier prospects.

[Dreamscape]

Chipper isn't going anywhere. He just signed an extension and has complete control over his future.

[bravos4evr]

I looked at the FA list for next year and not too many names interested me. I don't see Nick Johnson as that much of an improvement over Kotchman when one takes cost into consideration.
Orlando Hudson at 2nd was interesting tho......

I think that there could be some serious shakeups coming on the horizon.

Would FW fire Bobby Cox in the same manner in which he allowed Glavine and Smoltz to go? Could he do this without alienating the players? Would JS allow it to happen?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[KB 34]

I have one plan that I believe works for trying to compete this year and planning for 2010. First, start shopping Kawakami, Francoeur, Anderson, and Bennett. If no one wants the last three cut them and move on. To replace them recall Schafer, Brandon Jones, and Parr. Find out if Jones is any good now so a decision can be made in the offseason.

With Escobar if he's a real headcase that needs to go trade him now. I'll trust the Braves to make the right decision here. If it's a problem like it seems to be trade him and let Infante take over in a little while until the offseason when the situation can be fixed. Hopefully trading Escobar fills a hole somewhere.

The starting rotation stays as is because Kawakami isn't worth anything and no one will want to pick up his contract. With the bullpen slash Moylan's innings in half and promote Medlen to a larger role.

The main theme here is let the youth movement happen and see what happens. The current team isn't going to win so I say take a gamble and see if somehow it works out because the other way I can't see working. The new lineup is (with no KJ shuffling and such after changing my mind again)
KJ 2B
Kotchman 1B
Chipper 3B
McCann C
McLouth LF
Escobar ss
Jones RF
Schafer CF

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Our main problem is hitting. Chipper is still one fo the best in the league at that. We trade him and then we can forget about next year, or the year after. I think we gotta give the kids some run. Canizares, B Jones, Jordan, and Medlen should get some experience as soon as we're sure we're out of it. I agree on Huddy too. If he comes back and he looks good I still would take him over Vasquez even if he made 5 times the money.


** Trading Escobar worries me. It's very , very hard to find a SS as skilled as he is offensively and defensively. Not too much the age, and friendly contract.

[ScooterBrave]

** Trading Escobar worries me. It's very , very hard to find a SS as skilled as he is offensively and defensively. Not too much the age, and friendly contract.

I heard there was this kid in Texas......

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Guss your talking about Andrus. Yea, he is hitting 260 with no pop. But still is in the ROY hunt because he's a SS. We did have 2 good ones, but we gave Andrus away. Not sure what your trying to hint at?

[bravos4evr]

IMO, Escobar is too good to trade unless we can get a similarly under control impact outfield bat for him. This would free us up to put Infante there and focus on trading for a SS come the winter.

I bet if we traded the MGR we might even be able to keep escobar there!

[KB 34]

IMO, Escobar is too good to trade unless we can get a similarly under control impact outfield bat for him. This would free us up to put Infante there and focus on trading for a SS come the winter.

I bet if we traded the MGR we might even be able to keep escobar there!
The question I pose is what if everything we're reading at MLB.com about Escobar and the Braves not getting along is more true than we want to think? I'd agree that if things are peachy between the organization and him then it takes a lot to trade him. There's no way I'd want to open up a hole at ss to fix an outfield position if it can be helped. My concern is that if there's a problem I'd say sell high before the collapse. All I can do it look at the quotes and think something is wrong with the picture. Who knows if it can/will be fixed or if the Braves need to get maximum return and move on. As an organization it does pretty well at ss anyhow. Furcal, Renteria, Escobar with a bunch of trades if pretty impressive so the worst case is it probably gets resolved by next spring well.

[bravos4evr]

After posting in the trade thread I got an idea about what we need, and whom we expect to keep and why we should keep them.

Kotchman- He's a +++ defender and a slightly above average batter for first base. Not much power but could be a Mark Grace type which to me is fine. But if we get a decent offer for him, I'd move him and stick Canizares there in a quickness!

KJ- has developed this year into an average defender I think, yet his bat has gone dead in recent days. he still looks patient, but man is he not getting hits... Maybe his BABIP is out of whack, but If we get offered anything for him , i would strongly consider it!

Escobar- only reason to move him is Bobby hates him. Unless of course he can bring us something big time cheap and under control....

Chipper- He has veto power so moot point.

McCann- never happen, and it shouldn't!

G Anderson- should be DFA'd
Diaz- If someone offered us a pen arm I'd take it!
Frenchy- I am hoping he can hit a three week hot streak in July and give himself some value. Cuz He is so outta here!
Mclouth- Not gone obviously cuz we just brought him here!

Soriano/Gonzalez- I would make an extension offer to one and trade the other one right at the deadline unless someone blew us away .
Bennet- DFA'd
Medlen-Moved to setup role, but if a team makes a good offer, he'd b gone too
Moylan- share setup role in the 7th with medlen for the rest of the season
Acosta-keep him in to pitch the 6th if we need him or maybe be a ROOGY
O'Flaherty- LOOGY duty only for awhile

Lowe-unmovable
Kawakami- may actually be movable as his numbers aren't as bad as his record. If he can have 5 or 6 good starts by deadline time, he might have a market!
Vazquez- he is so gone, I wish he wasn;t but I can't see us paying him the same $$$ we could pay Hanson to prolly be a tad better. I hope he can bring us either an under control Power bat or a heap of prospects!
Jurrjiens- uh no, he ain't goin nowhere's!!!
Hanson-Ditto


There are 8 players I would trade if offered, and maybe add Escobar to that list tho i don't like it. That doesn't mean a fire sale really , as i can't say that this lineup for 2010 with this rotation really gets me that excited!

Schafer
Escobar
Chipper
OF bat
McCann
Mclouth
Kotchman
KJ

well, maybe that lineup doesn;t look so bad after all!

Hudson
Lowe
Jurrjens
Hanson
Kawakami

That looks pretty darn good there.

pen-

9th-?
8th-Moylan/Medlen
7th-Moylan/Medlen
6th-Acosta
LOOGY-?
Middle relief-?
mopup guy-?


that looks like a recipe for disaster worse than this year!!!!


priority one- corner OF bat , under control and cheap
priority two- fill the vacant pen spots after we move Soriano and Gonzo
priority three- hope like heck Hudson comes back strong and ready to pitch!

[The Rap]

I am not ready to throw in the towel when we are in a position of being just a few moves from contending. Trade Frenchy and KJ now and get a real bat for the OF. Leave the bullpen alone because it isnlt as bad as you think. Release GA and Norton because no big loss. Keep in mind the Phillies and Mets have plenty of problems.

[Braves N 10]

I dont see us coming back and winning anything. The Braves still cant hit with a better CF hitter. One move is not going to get this team going, its more like three more guys then maybe we would be a good team.

So yes I am throwing in my towel.

[Bad Blood]

Any line-up that includes Francoeur, Kelly, and Diaz (outside of pinch hitting) is not going to be a contender. Neither is one that has Schafer, Canizares, Kotchman, McLouth and, to a lesser extent, Yunel hitting any higher than 7th. None of those are good enough to hit any higher than in the bottom third of the order. Most of those guys have had at least 4 years to prove what kind of major league hitters they are, and none of them have shown that they are particularly good at the plate. Schafer and Canizares are the only ones who don't have significant MLB experience, and while they may turn out to be a very good players, it probably won't happen as soon as next year. And in Canizares' case, his minor-league numbers don't suggest that he's going to be a particular fearsome MLB hitter.

So to anyone who has posted a mock '10 line-up that includes more than 2 of those guys, and any of them hitting higher than 7th, well, you're not looking at a contender.

Now, I realize that most of those guys will be back next season. In addition to Chipper and McCann, you won't see Kotchman, McLouth or Yunel going anywhere. And chances are Schafer will join them, and probably Diaz too. But that does not give me much hope that we will be much better next season.

[The Rap]

All I was saying is get two outfielders to play with Mclouth without really hurting another position and voila! you have a shot to win the division. Jeremy Hermida, Jermaine Dye, Aubrey Huff, Delmon Young, David DeJesus, Gary Matthews Jr.,Josh Willingham, Michael Cuddyer, Austin Kearns, Mark Kotsay, so just pick two and play ball.

***don't look at their contracts because we can work anything out by having the current team assuming or sharing that cost.

[Dreamscape]

Contracts are kinda important because I don't believe the Braves have any money left. The only way to "work" with that is overspending on prospects to get them to take on money.

[Andy G.]

Any line-up that includes Francoeur, Kelly, and Diaz (outside of pinch hitting) is not going to be a contender. Neither is one that has Schafer, Canizares, Kotchman, McLouth and, to a lesser extent, Yunel hitting any higher than 7th. None of those are good enough to hit any higher than in the bottom third of the order. Most of those guys have had at least 4 years to prove what kind of major league hitters they are, and none of them have shown that they are particularly good at the plate. Schafer and Canizares are the only ones who don't have significant MLB experience, and while they may turn out to be a very good players, it probably won't happen as soon as next year. And in Canizares' case, his minor-league numbers don't suggest that he's going to be a particular fearsome MLB hitter.

So to anyone who has posted a mock '10 line-up that includes more than 2 of those guys, and any of them hitting higher than 7th, well, you're not looking at a contender.

Now, I realize that most of those guys will be back next season. In addition to Chipper and McCann, you won't see Kotchman, McLouth or Yunel going anywhere. And chances are Schafer will join them, and probably Diaz too. But that does not give me much hope that we will be much better next season.
Sorry, but that's ridiculous. McLouth and Escobar aren't good enough to hit higher than seventh? Come on. They're both good enough to hit at the top of a lineup. Kotchman is arguable, and Schafer will be there eventually. Canizares is not part of the plan, unless he makes it on the bench next year.

[KB 34]

The Braves have a lot of valuable bats, the issue is they're all pretty redundant and thus don't do well together. If the Braves could add a real power hitter to the lineup I think we'd see a huge turnaround. Add one good power hitter and an average one and the lineup is scary. Assuming the Braves can work things out with Escobar they have the easiest positions to fill in outfield positions. Even if they can't Infante and a real outfielder is a lot better than Esocbar and Francoeur/Anderson. I don't think the lineup is really that far away but with the Braves salary and resource situations rounding out the lineup is really tough.

[slowride]

HHHmmmm.....where do I see the problem......

Well, you could say Frenchy, but then you'd have to admit that KJ sucks. I don't think either suck. I think our hitting coach sucks, but they're not often traded.

I don't personally know why everyone is so high on Schafer. As though he had some problems, but he'll come back in a blaze of glory!

The guy's problem was the fastball. Pretty basic. He. Could. Not. Hit. The. Fastball. So i'm not going to worry about him for now.

I say, despite how much I love to yell 'lets go Kelly', put Prado as the everyday second baseman. And, while we're at it, make Diaz the every day left fielder.

So now we're left looking for power. We're looking for ONE guy who will hit 40 dingers/season. Apparently we can't develop one; and first base is where many power hitters reside.

I want a first base power hitter. Let's stop talking about who is available in the outfield. Let's start hashing out the next crime dog.

He, hitting behind chip and before Mac....is the missing piece.

[bravos4evr]

and a reliable middle of the bullpen,and some slugging and OBP from our corner outfield spots.... we are not just a power hitter away from being an elite team!!!! We are a power hitter and 2 above average hitters away, and at least one more solid dependable pen arm!

[slowride]

A. I like our mid-pen. Not to mention Medlen's role is still airborne.
B. The power hitter I suggested, as you suggested, can come from a position other than corner outfield. Diaz, McLouth, Frenchy....unpopular on this board I'm sure but it's what I want.
C. Prado would be an improvement over Kelly. I hate to say that......but it's true.

[bravos4evr]

An OF of Diaz Mclouth and Frenchy is absolutely not going to do anything for this team other than allow it to continue on it's course to palookaville.

Mclouth in LF, Schafer in CF and Dye in RF might do something tho!

[slowride]

Exactly. We threw Dye to the wolves WAY too early.

Frenchy? Nah....we learned our lesson?

[bravos4evr]

Frenchy may develop into something, but it will never be with the braves.

[Dreamscape]

Dye knew how to hit when he was traded.

Francoeur has still never really learned. Sure, maybe he might some day, but I highly doubt it. I really wish they would have traded him when his value was highest, but Atlanta probably would have rioted.

[Bad Blood]

Sorry, but that's ridiculous. McLouth and Escobar aren't good enough to hit higher than seventh? Come on. They're both good enough to hit at the top of a lineup. Kotchman is arguable, and Schafer will be there eventually. Canizares is not part of the plan, unless he makes it on the bench next year.


Kotchman has no speed and almost no power. He has no business hitting anywhere higher than 7th. Schafer I said had a bright future but I didn't think he'd be ready to play a key role in 2010 and remember, that is what this thread is about.

And if McLouth and Escobar were so damn good why does our offense still suck? If those two guys are your top two hitters in the line-up, your offense is not very good, if for no other reason than that probably means the rest of your line-up is not very good.

Think about the truly good offensive teams in baseball... Philly, Boston, the Yankees... any chance Escobar and McLouth hit at the top of the order for them on a consistent basis? Doubt it.

[Andy G.]

Kotchman has no speed and almost no power. He has no business hitting anywhere higher than 7th. Schafer I said had a bright future but I didn't think he'd be ready to play a key role in 2010 and remember, that is what this thread is about.

And if McLouth and Escobar were so damn good why does our offense still suck? If those two guys are your top two hitters in the line-up, your offense is not very good, if for no other reason than that probably means the rest of your line-up is not very good.
That's terrible logic. Our offense sucks because the production out of 5-8 has been so awful.

Think about the truly good offensive teams in baseball... Philly, Boston, the Yankees... any chance Escobar and McLouth hit at the top of the order for them on a consistent basis? Doubt it.
So if the absolute best offenses in baseball have better hitters than the first two hitters in our lineup, those hitters aren't good enough to hit higher than seventh? Again, that's terrible logic. Look at the numbers. They're both productive hitters. They're both good enough to hit where they're hitting in our lineup. With the addition of true power hitter and average production out of the bottom half of our lineup, the Braves could score plenty of runs with McLouth and Escobar at the top of the lineup.

Kotchman hits a ton of double. He has almost no homerun power, but he has enough power to hit second in a good lineup, if he performs at the level he showed he was capable of in the minors and in his first season.

[KB 34]

Once upon a time the Braves had a decent offense with Gerald Williams and Bret Boone (before the steroids) batting at the top of the order. The difference was back then the Braves had power hitters around instead of nothing but #2 and #10 bats. If I had to choose lineup spots in an ideal world for the Braves players, here would be my #1 and #2 choices.

McCann-5th/3rd
Kotchman-2nd/6th
KJ 2nd/6th
Escobar 2nd/1st
Chipper 3rd/5th
Francoeur 9th/8th
Anderson 9th/8th
McLouth 2nd/1st

The Braves don't have a cleanup hitter and have a #5 hitter trying to be a cleanup hitter. That is a problem.

[Andy G.]

Agreed KB. Before the season started we all talked about it. I made that thread about "Why the Braves will/won't succeed in 2009" and the bottom line was that with the offense we had to start the season, we had to count on the entire lineup to have productive seasons. Poo Poo was supposed to be a safe bet to have an average season. Turns out he sucks. Schafer wasn't ready. Francoeur continued his '08 form, and Kelly Johnson is having a nightmare season so far. We needed them all to perform close to the best of their abilities, and it's been the exact opposite.

The reason McLouth's presence hasn't been enough to fix the offense is because the other three players I mentioned are performing so badly. Not to mention Kotchman's injury and the fact that his SLG is uncharacteristically low at the moment. Replace Poo Poo and Francoeur with a legitimate cleanup hitter and a league average hitter, and the Braves will score enough runs to support their pitching staff.

[argentina brave]

umm....who is 'poo poo'?

:p

[bravos4evr]

I am of the opinion that we either need to go 8-1 at a minimum in our next 3 series or we need to lose all ofthem. Cuz if we just muddle around 500 the team will think it can still win the division and do something stupid....

[BraveFan]

I think if the Braves add one big bat and one decent bat the team will make the playoffs. We need to add a cleanup hitter and someone who isn't a liability like KJ and Francoeur. As I've posted numerous times I'm fine with either Prado starting at 2B or the LF platoon as long as they are batting 7th or 8th with Jeff replaced and either a new 2B or LF. If the Braves were to aquire DeRosa he would give the Braves an option of playing him in either LF or 2B depending on who is hitting.