Official Atlanta Braves Trade Rumors Thread

[Dreamscape]

I really don't mind Kawakami. Since the beginning of May, he's been pretty solid. Not hard to expect him to have some trouble adjusting to the game. He has become more of a strike thrower and does just about what you expect out of a fourth starter. Is he overpaid? Probably, but not enough for me to get on him for what he has provided.

[BraveFan]

Its understandable that KK pitched poorly yesterday b/c he hadn't pitched in a while and only threw 3 innings the last time he did pitch. Before Joba hit that liner of his neck he had been great for the last few outtings. Yesterday was the only time in his 10 starts that he allowed more than 3 runs.

[ScooterBrave]

Nobody picked on Hanson. All Dream said was that Hanson was saying all the right things, using the cliches, when asked about how well he's pitched this year. Dream didn't say anything about his character, he only thought that using those cliches in a time when everything was going pretty well said little about his character and more about his media skills.

Some of us do believe that Kelly Johnson's comments about wanting to do whatever he can to help the team reflect positively on his character. He's in a crappy situation. He hasn't played well and has lost his job as the second baseman. It's not as easy to say the right things and continue to be a good teammate in a time like that.

But perhaps he just has good media skills as well and isn't as big an idiot as Frenchy.

[wordslayer©]

Why Vasquez????

If your goal is really trying to win it this year, then why in the world would you trade Vasquez??? Makes absolutely no sense at all.

If you are lucky enough to make it into the playoffs, this is the guy you want starting game one. This is the guy that can shut down a high powered offense. This is the guy that can get you that big first game win.

You need a power pitcher to win in the playoffs. You can get lucky with finesse, but you really need that power pitcher.

K:BB ratio of 5:1. A WHIP of almost 1.00.

Again, this goes back to what are your intentions for this year versus the next two to three years.

If, by some stroke of luck, we make it into the playoffs, and if we are really serious about winning, you have to hold on to this guy.

If you are looking for the next 2-4 years, then yeah, you can make an argument to trade him, but he better be bringing in some world class young talent.

For the life of me, I don't even get what Wren and company are thinking about sometimes.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

LoL. The fact that he has always wilted in big games and has a postseason ERA of 10.34 would seem to weaken your argument just a tiny bit.

[wordslayer©]

LoL. The fact that he has always wilted in big games and has a postseason ERA of 10.34 would seem to weaken your argument just a tiny bit.

Means absolutely nothing to me. Mike schmidt hit .240 in post season play in his career. History is littered with small sample sizes that mean nothing.

[Andy G.]

But perhaps he just has good media skills as well and isn't as big an idiot as Frenchy.
None of us know the guy. You could be right. Maybe Kelly Johnson is a giant doucher and everything he says is total BS. Are we not supposed to be impressed when a player shows a certain level of professionalism? Everybody has players they like and don't like, but I don't understand why anyone would be bothered by the praise KJ is getting for the way he's handled himself throughout all of this.

[wordslayer©]

The second is because he's so freakin' valuable right now that we almost have to see if someone wants to be flippin' stupid and offer us entirely too much for him.


This is the only valid reason I can see for them trading him, but I feel this way about any braves player we have. The excuse to trade him because they didn't manage their money more effectively doesn't fly with me.

[Wahoo]

Means absolutely nothing to me. Mike schmidt hit .240 in post season play in his career. History is littered with small sample sizes that mean nothing.

Checkmate.

[jamminHANES]

As good as Vazquez has been, we can still win without him. We have 3 other starters who are very good and our team lacks that big threatening bat that can win us ball games regularly.

[wordslayer©]

As good as Vazquez has been, we can still win without him. We have 3 other starters who are very good and our team lacks that big threatening bat that can win us ball games regularly.

IF I felt that a big bat could win us games "regularly," then I would agree with you, but I don't think that will be the case.

A big bat would help, but the loss of Vasquez would, I feel, wipe away a potential gain, because giving up a top of the line power pitcher, such as he is, would be too costly.

If you aren't trying to win this year, then yeah, I might consider the move to trade him, IF the return for him nets us more than a bat, shores up another position, along with getting and a top of the line prospect. That's the only way I'm moving him, and Wren may have that in the works......who knows?

But if you are trying to win in the playoffs for this year, then I think you got to keep him. Going into the playoffs with Jurrjens, Hanson and Lowe just isn't enough to make a strong run in the playoffs. You have to have that dominant power pitcher.

[Braves N 10]

There has been rumors now floating around that Yunel might be playing the outfield soon. This makes no sense though if we are gettin Infante back soon.

[BraveFan]

I don't want to trade either Yunel or Javy but thought of a three team deal thought would be fair.


Braves get: Adam Dunn and JJ Hardy
Brewers get: Javy Vazquez
Nationals get: Yunel Escobar and a High level Brewer Prospect

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Checkmate.


Really? Yea. Ok. Guy gets ran out of two cities for being a cream puff whenever the team needs him and the response is a random postseason stat from a hall of famer a couple decades ago? K. Got it. Makes sense now. I was so wrong.

[Dreamscape]

Well, there is some validity to the argument that Vazquez struggles in the most important situations, though this does not include "big game" arguments. If you look at his leverage situations, the situations of high leverage (the 20% of the times when the game is tied and there is runner in scoring position and less than two outs...those types of situations) see Vazquez's stats take a major downturn. Compared to John Smoltz, whose high leverage situations see little difference from medium and low leverage situations.

So, maybe Vazquez struggles when the situation is the most important. There is something to be said that you don't even get to the postseason without pitchers like Vazquez. With an offense worth a damn, Vazquez would be in the Cy Young discussion this year. He's having the best season of his career right now and is on pace for 260 K's in 224 innings.

Frankly, any argument for trading Vazquez that isn't solely based on return in prospects to rebuild the team lacks any merit.

[luvdembravos]

I'm not sold on trading Escobar unless it's a BIG bat (Adam Dunn type or better)... it would be easier to replace Yunel if we hadn't "thrown-in" Elvis Andrus in the Ranger trade two years ago.

[bravos4evr]

Yeah I don't get trading Escobar at all. It seems to me that Infante would only provide about 75%ish of his offense and unless the return is a monster OF bat we aren't really improving the team that much.

Vazquez is our best option, especially if Hudson's rehab starts look really good and he can step right back into the rotation. Though I am of the opinion we would get a better return for Vazquez in the offseason.

[Murphys#1Fan]

That's just the point Luv...you can't replace Escobar's defense at SS.

[Hobbes]

I'm not sold on trading Escobar unless it's a BIG bat (Adam Dunn type or better)... it would be easier to replace Yunel if we hadn't "thrown-in" Elvis Andrus in the Ranger trade two years ago.
Unfortunately, Andrus wasn't a throw-in in that deal, but a core piece. Neftali Feliz was a throw-in, and could easily be one of the most regrettable parts of the deal.

[Wahoo]

Really? Yea. Ok. Guy gets ran out of two cities for being a cream puff whenever the team needs him and the response is a random postseason stat from a hall of famer a couple decades ago? K. Got it. Makes sense now. I was so wrong.

Just because of a litany of other people, often uninformed, choose to value smaller sample sizes over larger ones, doesn't validate your point in the least. The truth be told is that the larger sample size is much more indicative a player's performance, than the smaller size. I get that the postseason is emphasized, but to look at a limited sample of postseason performance and say oh well he sucks, when there is a much larger example to suggest otherwise is just naive, and bordering on foolish if you ask me. Besides, how many games has Vasquez pitched in the postseason?

[BigWorm]

Nothing's more exciting than a stathead fight.

[BraveFan]

The Brewers have called the Braves about Vazquez

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/brewers-trying-to-deal-for-vazquez.html

Good to see Wren isn't stupid enough to trade Vazquez for Corey Hart. I wish somehow we could trade Vazquez and package some prospects for Braun, not going to happen.

If we trade Vazquez I want it to be for an established player who can come in and solitify the lineup right now.

[Dreamscape]

Nothing's more exciting than a stathead fight.
Everyone lives to please you.

[Dreamscape]

If the Brewers want to give us Gamel and Escobar (both, not just one), who am I to say no? Then I can use Yunel Escobar in a trade so that Bobby Cox can once again be all happy. Since that type of thing won't happen, oh well. Jeremy Jeffress would have been nice...if he hadn't just been suspended for 100 days.

[bravos4evr]

The Brewers faithful seem to think that it would be a three team trade that sends Escobar to Royals prospects to both teams Brewers get Vazquez and Braves get Hart and JJ Hardy....

IMO, I think that kinda sucks! Hart hasn't been much better than Frenchy this year and Hardy has had a terrible year as well. I love it when fans think that other teams will trade their best player for their worst ones!

[BraveFan]

The Brewers faithful seem to think that it would be a three team trade that sends Escobar to Royals prospects to both teams Brewers get Vazquez and Braves get Hart and JJ Hardy....

IMO, I think that kinda sucks! Hart hasn't been much better than Frenchy this year and Hardy has had a terrible year as well. I love it when fans think that other teams will trade their best player for their worst ones!

I wouldn't trade either Vazquez or Escobar for that let alone trade both of them.

[BigWorm]

Everyone lives to please you.

Except the Braves of course. They live to torture my soul for all of eternity.

[wordslayer©]

Really? Yea. Ok. Guy gets ran out of two cities for being a cream puff whenever the team needs him and the response is a random postseason stat from a hall of famer a couple decades ago? K. Got it. Makes sense now. I was so wrong.

Would Jeff Bagwell work?

Dang it...should have went with Sabathia.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Checkmate.

Just because of a litany of other people, often uninformed, choose to value smaller sample sizes over larger ones, doesn't validate your point in the least. The truth be told is that the larger sample size is much more indicative a player's performance, than the smaller size. I get that the postseason is emphasized, but to look at a limited sample of postseason performance and say oh well he sucks, when there is a much larger example to suggest otherwise is just naive, and bordering on foolish if you ask me. Besides, how many games has Vasquez pitched in the postseason?

I'm not going to waste anymore time on this, but the fact is he is soft and has been run out of half the organizations he's been with because of it. OK hes been horrible in his 3 postseason starts. Actually horrible is a nice way of putting it. But truthfully he stunk down the stretch for the Sox. Thats why Ozzie couldn't stand him. Same for the Yankees. If you wanna close your eyes and yell and pretend he doesn't disappear when it counts go ahead. But there is a reason a player with all his talent has a losing record for his career. He's ****ing soft. He's the Bizzaro John Smoltz. He's the kind of guy who hurts you in the postseason. But I'll leave this debate and let you two unite him the second coming of Cy Young just because the guy mows down the crap hitters he is supposed to and gets a lot of strikeouts (which are insanely overrated by some :wall:).

[Wahoo]

I'm not going to waste anymore time on this, but the fact is he is soft and has been run out of half the organizations he's been with because of it. OK hes been horrible in his 3 postseason starts. Actually horrible is a nice way of putting it. But truthfully he stunk down the stretch for the Sox. Thats why Ozzie couldn't stand him. Same for the Yankees. If you wanna close your eyes and yell and pretend he doesn't disappear when it counts go ahead. But there is a reason a player with all his talent has a losing record for his career. He's ****ing soft. He's the Bizzaro John Smoltz. He's the kind of guy who hurts you in the postseason. But I'll leave this debate and let you two unite him the second coming of Cy Young just because the guy mows down the crap hitters he is supposed to and gets a lot of strikeouts (which are insanely overrated by some :wall:).

You're the only one getting bent out of shape here. No one is suggesting that he's a great pitcher. We're only contesting the fact that you think he stinks, based largely on unsubstantiated perception and 3 postseason starts. If you disagree, that's fine, you are entitled to it, but don't pretend like we're the ones yelling when all we did was make a simple counterpoint to your argument, which was perfectly logical. Stick to your opinion, but don't act like we are the ones being gun-ho here.

[Dreamscape]

Hyperbole is fun!

/this is all.

[Chris_Moderato]

annoint and gung-ho.

[BraveFan]

I wonder if the Yanks would have any interest in Lowe. They didn't really go after him in the offseason but that was before they knew that Wang sucked. I wouldn't even ask for much of anything in return, just having them take him off of the payroll would be huge and we could certainly replace him with Hudson. That would allow the Braves a **** load of room to sign a bat or trade for one.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

WOW. jays have made Halladay available.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4311661

I know we won't be anywhere in the discussion at all, but I LOVE this guy. Best pitcher in the game IMO. I bet the Yanks and Sox are all over this.

[Wahoo]

I wonder if the Yanks would have any interest in Lowe. They didn't really go after him in the offseason but that was before they knew that Wang sucked. I wouldn't even ask for much of anything in return, just having them take him off of the payroll would be huge and we could certainly replace him with Hudson. That would allow the Braves a **** load of room to sign a bat or trade for one.

That's how I feel. It'll never happen, but his signing is looking pretty awful right now.

[bravos4evr]

I'm not gonna throw the towel in on Lowe just yet and here's why.

His career first half splits are 71-73 with a 3.97 ERA and a WHIP of 1.310

his second half splits are 62-41 with a 3,54 ERA and a WHIP of 1.230 and in 20% less second half games pitched than first half he has given up 40% fewer HR's!

I think he will turn it around and end up being a solid under 4.00 ERA guy with a WHIp near his career avg for us once the season is over!

[BigWorm]

WOW. jays have made Halladay available.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4311661

I know we won't be anywhere in the discussion at all, but I LOVE this guy. Best pitcher in the game IMO. I bet the Yanks and Sox are all over this.

The problem with the Yanks and Sox is that they have depleted their respected farm systems, and they simply don't have enough young talent to land Halladay via trade. The Braves on the other hand, do have the young talent, but this arm would certainly command a Jason Heyward type prospect, which the Braves desperately need considering their outfield situation.

[BraveFan]

That's how I feel. It'll never happen, but his signing is looking pretty awful right now.

While Lowe could rebound this year and pitch well for us I just think we the other starters being so good the value for him is much less than what we are paying. We could use his $$ to get that bat and also get rid of his contract. I think the Braves don't want to part with any of their starters until they find out what Hudson has and if his contract is worth picking up.

[Chris_Moderato]

Lowe is giving us exactly what he is...a more-or-less average pitcher who can shine at times. It's not his fault we overpaid for him.

I'm not really all that worried about Lowe, to be honest. He's doing about as well as I think anyone could expect.

[CanadaBravesFan]

WOW. jays have made Halladay available.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4311661

I know we won't be anywhere in the discussion at all, but I LOVE this guy. Best pitcher in the game IMO. I bet the Yanks and Sox are all over this.

I would offer the Jays pretty much whatever they wanted for The Doc.

[BraveFan]

I would offer the Jays pretty much whatever they wanted for The Doc.

As good as Doc is I wouldn't trade for him b/c the Braves need offense not pitching. The Braves can't afford to pay him a new contract. I would not trade either JJ or Hanson for him nor would I deal Heyward.

[BraveFan]

Lowe is giving us exactly what he is...a more-or-less average pitcher who can shine at times. It's not his fault we overpaid for him.

I'm not really all that worried about Lowe, to be honest. He's doing about as well as I think anyone could expect.

I agree that we overpaid for him and that he isn't a real ace nor was he ever but I thought he would be much better than he has been. I expect him to have an ERA near the mid 3s instead of the mid 4s.

[wordslayer©]

Lowe is giving us exactly what he is...a more-or-less average pitcher who can shine at times. It's not his fault we overpaid for him.

I'm not really all that worried about Lowe, to be honest. He's doing about as well as I think anyone could expect.

You are exactly right. It's not his fault that we paid 15 effing million dollars for a pitcher of this caliber. As a matter of fact, I congratulate him for getting it. I just wish we weren't the ones that paid it.

I've been his biggest critic, but honestly, I actually thought he would be better than this. I worried more about him next year and the year after. I thought, for this year, we would have a pitcher that would be giving us a helluva lot more than he has given us thus far.

[BraveFan]

We should trade to get Andruw back he has hit 3 more HRs tonight which now gives him 14 for the season in only 159HRs compared to the 300 ABs by our current RF who only has 5 HRs. Meaning that Andruw hits HRs at nearly a 6 to 1 rate over our current RFer.

[Dreamscape]

Anyone looks good when you compare them to Francoeur.

Including Rafael Belliard.

[BraveFan]

Anyone looks good when you compare them to Francoeur.

Including Rafael Belliard.

maybe so but Andruw would be a huge upgrade and if you actually watch him hit you can see that his swing is back to its old days. He looks like the 06 Andruw. If you calculate Andruw's number of at bats and homers and then use that to calculate a full season's worht of ABs and he gets around 50 HRs. I'm not saying he would hit 50 HRs but he would hit atleast 35HRs and that is a huge upgrade. Besides average most every state this year is actually higher than his career average in that catagory, this includes his: on base, slugging and ops.

I think there are many people who just don't want Andruw back b/c they dislike him and are blind at the facts.

HRs- 14
ABs- 160
ABs per HR- 11.43
Projected HR count (using 600ABs)- 52

I know he won't get 600 ABs in 2009 but that is a round number of what roughly an everday player would get.

[Dreamscape]

Oh, the facts.

The facts are...his numbers are built primarily by the park he spends most of his time in. True, true, his big game tonight was on the road, but that was the exception that proves the rule. .255/.357/.571 at home vs. .211/.313/.439 on the road. There is nothing particularly wonderful about his numbers. Beyond that, he's getting serious rest, allowing his body, which has been breaking down for a couple of years now, ample opportunity to recouperate.

Again, true, when you compare it to Jeff Francoeur or the LF platoon, it looks great. Even his away numbers don't look too bad next to Francoeur's. But is that praise? Is that something to be excited about?

It's not so much people don't want Andruw back...it's that we don't see his numbers looking just awesome when he switches back to a more neutral ballpark. His numbers will take a dive and the sudden awesomeness he has had in Texas will go away.

[BraveFan]

Oh, the facts.

The facts are...his numbers are built primarily by the park he spends most of his time in. True, true, his big game tonight was on the road, but that was the exception that proves the rule. .255/.357/.571 at home vs. .211/.313/.439 on the road. There is nothing particularly wonderful about his numbers. Beyond that, he's getting serious rest, allowing his body, which has been breaking down for a couple of years now, ample opportunity to recouperate.

Again, true, when you compare it to Jeff Francoeur or the LF platoon, it looks great. Even his away numbers don't look too bad next to Francoeur's. But is that praise? Is that something to be excited about?

It's not so much people don't want Andruw back...it's that we don't see his numbers looking just awesome when he switches back to a more neutral ballpark. His numbers will take a dive and the sudden awesomeness he has had in Texas will go away.

He has both 7 HR in Texas and 7 on the road. I know his average sucks on the road but thats b/c he has not had as many ABs on the road. He would be a huge and cheap upgrade and we wouldn't have to trade Yunel, Vazquez, or a top prospect to get him.

Haha I went over to some Dodgers boads and they want to file a law suit against Andruw.

[Dreamscape]

The Rangers are contending for the NL West crown. They want to just give us Andruw why?

He wouldn't be a huge upgrade. A moderate one, maybe, but a huge upgrade would be Adam Dunn.

[BraveFan]

The Rangers are contending for the NL West crown. They want to just give us Andruw why?

He wouldn't be a huge upgrade. A moderate one, maybe, but a huge upgrade would be Adam Dunn.

Rangers need pitching and we have a tone of it. The Braves can't afford Dunn's contract without trading Vazquez and I'd rather keep Javy and aquire a bat than get Dunn and lose Javy.

Andruw has also had over 30 more ABs at the Ball Park in Arlington than on the road meaning that he is hitting a higher rate of HRs on the road. I don't think the stadiums matter much for AJ b/c most of his HRs he hits are bombs but I think Rudy is the difference not the ballpark. I think unlike Francoeur Andruw has had great past success for a decade and therefore he knows how to hit and by leaving Rudy he wouldn't be harmed. I think if he hadn't worked with the Texas hitting coach and he had signed with the Braves in the offseason he would have sucked like he did the pass two years but with the wisdom and new confidence Rudy bought him he is okay to leave and be successful.

[Dreamscape]

They have Andruw Jones for nothing. They won't just give him away without an established pitcher that helps them contend this year. They probably can't afford to add Vazquez anyway. The Braves certainly aren't dealing Hanson or Jurrjens and Medlen's not the impact pitcher the Rangers are looking for. I'm not sure how you think there is a fit here. If this was the Pirates, sure, throw a B-grade prospect at them and they will hand him over. But the Rangers are trying to compete.

Andruw's homer numbers are not really that important. After watching him for years, anyone knows Andruw goes on homer binges. I'm looking at all of his numbers and they are not that impressive. Take away Arlington and they becomes even less impressive. Sure, I'll take him (if the Rangers are just giving him away, which they aren't), but he's in a perfect situation to look his best. Take him away from that and understand what is going to come.

[BraveFan]

They have Andruw Jones for nothing. They won't just give him away without an established pitcher that helps them contend this year. They probably can't afford to add Vazquez anyway. The Braves certainly aren't dealing Hanson or Jurrjens and Medlen's not the impact pitcher the Rangers are looking for. I'm not sure how you think there is a fit here. If this was the Pirates, sure, throw a B-grade prospect at them and they will hand him over. But the Rangers are trying to compete.

Andruw's homer numbers are not really that important. After watching him for years, anyone knows Andruw goes on homer binges. I'm looking at all of his numbers and they are not that impressive. Take away Arlington and they becomes even less impressive. Sure, I'll take him (if the Rangers are just giving him away, which they aren't), but he's in a perfect situation to look his best. Take him away from that and understand what is going to come.

I think it is more about getting his swing back than any ballparks he is playing in. Its not like his problems the last two years were hitting warning track fly balls that now are HRs in Texas. His problem was he was clueless and always chasing horrible pitches and pitch selection isn't impact by the park being a hitter's park or not. I think he would be just find here as long as he ignores TP. I think the Rangers might consider trading for Medlen even though he isn't a impact pitcher at the moment. It really depends if the Rangers just want to use him as trade baite or if they think he is an answer to their current team.

I would rather take a little risk with a guy like AJ who has an upside than setteling for just a little upgrade over Francoeur with an okay outfielder.

[Hillbilly]

I think it is more about getting his swing back than any ballparks he is playing in. Its not like his problems the last two years were hitting warning track fly balls that now are HRs in Texas. His problem was he was clueless and always chasing horrible pitches and pitch selection isn't impact by the park being a hitter's park or not.


I'll start by saying I'm NOT for bringing Andruw back to Atlanta. However this part of your post, I certainly agree with. I watched some of the game lastnight, and this is not the same guy that we saw in Atlanta in '07. Totally different look in the batters box before, during, and after the swing. (And on a side note: On the Rangers broadcast, they were showing a close-up of Andruw while the pitcher was getting his sign just before the 3rd HR, and I swear I thought I saw him wink at the pitcher as he was getting set. Three seconds later, he sent a laser over the left field wall. :thumbsup: )

While he'll never again be the All-star presence that he once was, he seems to have lifted his career back out of the gutter at the very least. He's not the laughing stock of the league any more, and as a huge AJ fan, I'm proud to see that. He's got new coaching and new friends. The announcers were discussing how he and Marlon Byrd have become close friends on and off the field. He seems comfortable. I say good for Andruw. Lets be happy for him and move on. He's not the answer to the Braves problems.

[CharlotteBrave]

I admit, I'm writing this before doing any research whatsoever, but if we're talking Rangers here, what about a guy like Hank Blalock? He can play 1B, and also has power. Granted, he's fairly injury prone, but he's been pretty healthy this year.

Something like Medlen (or Lowe?) and Kotchman for Blalock? I don't know, probably completely unrealistic, but I figured I'd toss it out there.

[slowride]

I admit, I'm writing this before doing any research whatsoever, but if we're talking Rangers here, what about a guy like Hank Blalock? He can play 1B, and also has power. Granted, he's fairly injury prone, but he's been pretty healthy this year.

Something like Medlen (or Lowe?) and Kotchman for Blalock? I don't know, probably completely unrealistic, but I figured I'd toss it out there.

Lowe and Kotchman would be a STEAL.....not enough though. And I hope we hold onto Medlen.

[Devil Wears Prado]

I was a fan of getting Andruw Jones in the beginning of the year, but I don't want to trade for him now. You've got to understand that first, he's part of a platoon. Second, he's being tutored by one of the best hitting coaches in the league - if not the best. And third, he's playing in a stadium that's very hitter-friendly.

[RiknTN]

can we trade for the hitting coach?

[bmitm76]

The Rangers are contending for the NL West crown. They want to just give us Andruw why?

He wouldn't be a huge upgrade. A moderate one, maybe, but a huge upgrade would be Adam Dunn.

I thought you despised an Adam Dunn signing this offseason...:confused:

[warefreak]

I just read the Angels might trade him.

Please let the Braves pick up that phone and give him a ring!!! He would be a perfect Chipper Jones replacement. They need pitching and we have some extras. I wouldn't mind trading Derek Lowe back to the A.L.

[Dreamscape]

I thought you despised an Adam Dunn signing this offseason...:confused:
I never despised a Dunn signing. My worry is that he's an awful defensive player, but then, so is Anderson.

[ChopTime]

The Rangers are contending for the NL West crown. They want to just give us Andruw why?

He wouldn't be a huge upgrade. A moderate one, maybe, but a huge upgrade would be Adam Dunn.



Unless I'm mistaken, the Nats have already said they aren't trading Adam Dunn. Doesn't make any sense, but that's what they're saying.

[Dreamscape]

They might not, but I see them saying they won't as a ploy. "We're going public with the idea of not trading Dunn so to save face, you better send us a huge package of prospects." I'm not saying we should get Dunn, but if you want an impact bat, there it is. You have to be willing to give up the prospects (which probably would require Medlen and Schafer). I'm not willing for that.

[Dreamscape]

Michael Urban, who follows the A's, has stated that he's hearing a bit about a possible deal (http://bigurb.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/07/and_then_there_was_baseball.html)...

Remember that potential trade with the Braves -- Holliday and Cabrera for Escobar and prospects -- I mentioned a while back? I keep hearing it, but out here I'm also hearing the Braves would need the A's to take on a big part of the money owed Holliday over the next few months.

While I'm not sure you give up your starting shortstop for a guy you will likely then replace, it makes some sense with the Braves moves of late. Holliday would slot into LF with Anderson getting DFA'd and Cabrera would replace Escobar for the rest of the year. Bobby Cox obviously holds a healthy dislike for Escobar and his antics.

Of course, you take the chance that Holliday won't play the major role the Braves need him to. If he continues to produce at his current level, you basically replace Escobar's production and you don't get all that good because Cabrera probably won't produce that much more than Anderson.

But if Holliday can produce closer to his Rockies' days than his A's hellish days...and Cabrera, who has been solid over the last month (and I just picked him up in one league) can continue to produce, you suddenly have a much more dynamic offense. You can drop McCann to fifth, Cabrera probably in the six-hole, with the Church/Diaz platoon hitting seventh. McLouth and Prado in the first two spots allowing Kotchman to bat 8th (or KJ :D).

On the other hand, if Holliday fails and/or the bullpen continues to be a problem that won't be addressed...or the package costs the team quite a bit in prospects...it's a waste.

[Wahoo]

Yeah, I'd rather we not pursue that trade. I just don't see that actually improving the team. Frankly, I'd be skeptical of any trades at this point. IMO, nothing is going to drastically improve the team at this point. If you're gonna make a move, make it with an eye on 2010.

[Murphys#1Fan]

Michael Urban, who follows the A's, has stated that he's hearing a bit about a possible deal (http://bigurb.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/07/and_then_there_was_baseball.html)...

Remember that potential trade with the Braves -- Holliday and Cabrera for Escobar and prospects -- I mentioned a while back? I keep hearing it, but out here I'm also hearing the Braves would need the A's to take on a big part of the money owed Holliday over the next few months.

While I'm not sure you give up your starting shortstop for a guy you will likely then replace, it makes some sense with the Braves moves of late. Holliday would slot into LF with Anderson getting DFA'd and Cabrera would replace Escobar for the rest of the year. Bobby Cox obviously holds a healthy dislike for Escobar and his antics.

Of course, you take the chance that Holliday won't play the major role the Braves need him to. If he continues to produce at his current level, you basically replace Escobar's production and you don't get all that good because Cabrera probably won't produce that much more than Anderson.

But if Holliday can produce closer to his Rockies' days than his A's hellish days...and Cabrera, who has been solid over the last month (and I just picked him up in one league) can continue to produce, you suddenly have a much more dynamic offense. You can drop McCann to fifth, Cabrera probably in the six-hole, with the Church/Diaz platoon hitting seventh. McLouth and Prado in the first two spots allowing Kotchman to bat 8th (or KJ :D).

On the other hand, if Holliday fails and/or the bullpen continues to be a problem that won't be addressed...or the package costs the team quite a bit in prospects...it's a waste.


It's a waste anyway if Escobar gets traded. No way does this team trade Escobar for a 3 month rental. NO WAY!!!

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

That would be a marginal upgrade for 3 months in trade for a potential all-star , whos cheap, for what 3 yrs guaranteed? 4? That would be a horrendous trade. It also says we throw in prospects and get cash. If Wren starts selling away talent I'm gonna be pissed (even more so).

[ATL2123]

♣ The Escobar rumor: While the Braves have made it known they are taking calls from teams interested in potential Yunel Escobar trades, I’m told that three’s nothing to the report out of Oakland of discussions between the teams about an Escobar-and-prospects trade for Oakland’s Matt Holliday and Orlando Cabrera.
Not saying they haven’t talked to Oakland at some point about Holliday.
Just saying the Braves haven’t talked to them about trading Escobar and prospects for Holliday and Cabrera, two pending free agents. That’d be a bad deal for the Braves, trading Escobar and prospects for two players they’d probably only keep for 2-1/2 months. (Holliday is a Scott Boras client, just FYI).
Has anyone noticed that Escobar, who’s not eligible for arbitration until after the 2010 season, is hitting .293 with seven homers, 44 RBI and a .790 OPS, compared to Holliday’s we’re-not-at-Coors-anymore .276-8-43 and .792 OPS?
GM Frank Wren has said several times that the Braves are reluctant to trade top prospects these days, like most teams are in this new era. Wren has also told me that he didn’t envision the Braves taking on a lot of new payroll via trade.
And the A’s aren’t going to pay most of Holliday’s contract to dump him. Not when they’ve got teams like the Cardinals interested in him, teams that won’t demand the A’s pick up most of what he’s owed from his $13.5 million salary.
By the way, talked to someone here today who told me the Cardinals are interested in Escobar. He also told me they wouldn’t trade Ryan Ludwick now.
Same guy told me the Braves tried to trade Rafael Soriano to the Cardinals last winter for - are you ready — OF Joe Mather. And Cardinals wouldn’t do it.
Don’t know if that’s entirely accurate, but it’s certainly possible it was proposed by the Braves, given the injury-plagued season Soriano had in 2008 and his $6.1 mill salary this season.
Needless to say, the Cardinals wish they had done that deal, since Soriano would be their closer right now.
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2009/07/14/lincecum-duckwalks-and-an-nl-all-star-win/?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab

More on the potential trading of Escobar, but Ludwick would be the only guy I would want from the Cardinals

[Hobbes]

That would be a marginal upgrade for 3 months in trade for a potential all-star , whos cheap, for what 3 yrs guaranteed? 4? That would be a horrendous trade. It also says we throw in prospects and get cash. If Wren starts selling away talent I'm gonna be pissed (even more so).

We've seen no evidence of Wren making bonehead trades to this point, so I can't see him trading a young, cheap proven major-leaguer for a questionable rental. Perhaps if such a trade was contingent on signing Holliday to an extension, I could maybe see it. But even if Bobby doesn't care for Yunel's antics, Wren isn't going to waste his obvious value.

[The Rap]

[B][Michael Urban of MLB.com is reporting that there have been ongoing trade talks between the Oakland A's and Atlanta Braves on a deal that would send Matt Holliday and Orlando Cabrera to Atlanta for Yunel Escobar and prospects. Urban notes that the A's would probably have to take on a big part of Holliday's contract to get the deal done. /B]

[Hobbes]

Michael Urban of MLB.com is reporting that there have been ongoing trade talks between the Oakland A's and Atlanta Braves on a deal that would send Matt Holliday and Orlando Cabrera to Atlanta for Yunel Escobar and prospects. Urban notes that the A's would probably have to take on a big part of Holliday's contract to get the deal done.
This was mentioned just a few posts ago in this thread Rap.

[Chris_Moderato]

This was mentioned just a few posts ago in this thread Rap.

:wall:

[The Rap]

Guys like I have the time to read all the messages posted?

[Dreamscape]

In other posts, you talk about how much time you have to watch movies and tv shows. Didn't know we couldn't expect you to read post #358 before adding post #364.

Nevertheless, there was some good arguments for not dealing Escobar. Depending on the rest of the deal, I still would listen to the deal. Sure, you will be in position where you will need to replace your shortstop in 3 months. That sucks. Or try to re-sign Orlando Cabrera. And you may not want to offer Matt Holliday arbitration unless he goes crazy the final few months to put himself once again in Jason Bay's company.

But I think it's a deal that could help the Braves win. I believe Cabrera would produce better than Anderson, especially when you take him from Oakland. I think Holliday will also produce better than Escobar. It makes the offense far more dynamic and gives the pitching more of a chance of winning. I dunno, maybe I'm starting to believe this team isn't that far away, but to me, I think we can win with this deal.

[luvdembravos]

In other posts, you talk about how much time you have to watch movies and tv shows.

That was before he started seeing his 30 year old girlfriend. The man is busy!

[Chris_Moderato]

That was before he started seeing his 30 year old girlfriend. The man is busy!

Burn.

[Freddy_Ballgame]

Trading Escobar in a deal for a coupla rentals is rather shortsighted. Presently, Escy's production is about the same as Holliday's, who is the present poster boy for blown up numbers playing in Colorado. I don't believe the Braves would go after Cabrera as a free agent. They had similar in Renteria.
I can understand considering trading Escy but they shouldn't throw the guy away. I'm guessing they have something working on the QT with a contending type team and they may be trying to wait it out to push up his price. He's still a bargain contract-wise for another year or two, isn't he?

[jamminHANES]

The idea seems to be that the Braves don't want Escobar for the amount of time they can have him. If they are really entertaining all of these offers they obviously are content with not having him on the roster for the next 4 years. If they are so willing to get rid of him, getting rid of him for a rental like Matt Holliday is not too terrible of an idea especially when you consider how solid Infante has been for the past two seasons when healthy.

We have Heyward and Schafer who should be ready to play full time in 2010 so they would be able to fill in the void left by Holliday and the franchise can move along past Escobar and his antics as they seemingly want to.

[Hobbes]

If they are so willing to get rid of him, getting rid of him for a rental like Matt Holliday is not too terrible of an idea especially when you consider how solid Infante has been for the past two seasons when healthy.
But it's not simply a question of whether we have a competent replacement, but also about maximizing his trade value. Esco's proven himself to be quite a competent major-league player at a scarce position, who is also cheap and under control for several years. You should be able to package him for something better than a rental, particularly one like Holliday who is playing poorly and has not yet proven that he wasn't a product of Coors.

[KB 34]

I suggest anyone whose after Holliday to remember the Teix deal and how that turned out. The Braves won't compete if they get Holliday nor do I think they will. With McLouth, Vazquez, and Kotchman the Braves demonstrated an interest to me in getting players they can retain even if they're not world class talents. While the team isn't quite to the competing stage yet bad rentals and brutually backloaded contracts seem to be a thing of the past and man am I happy to see them go.

[Dreamscape]

I don't think Teix and Holliday are comparable unless the Braves give up four of their top ten prospects, which they have shown little interest in doing, even in the deals to get Vazquez and McLouth. I don't think Wren would overspend in prospects to make the team better like Schuerholz was willing to do.

[KB 34]

Teix was signed for another season, Holliday isn't. That in itself makes a huge difference in the package it takes to acquire them. The similarity is they're both the primere player available at the trading deadline that the Braves can't afford to keep. Some of you might not go as far as to say Wren won't go after the best player available who will cost a fortune, I will.

[Dreamscape]

Holliday's value has sunk. Unless he begins to hit quickly, Beane will lose the leverage of "I'll just get two draft choices when he hits free agency." No way will the A's offer him arbitration and chance Holliday signing it.

So, right now is the perfect time to buy low on Holliday. I didn't think so originally, but I've come around on this one. Maybe you don't have to put Escobar on the table. Maybe a package centering around Cody Johnson will be enough to get into the ballgame. But I would definitely go aggressively after Holliday right now.

[wordslayer©]

Holliday's value has sunk. Unless he begins to hit quickly, Beane will lose the leverage of "I'll just get two draft choices when he hits free agency." No way will the A's offer him arbitration and chance Holliday signing it.

So, right now is the perfect time to buy low on Holliday. I didn't think so originally, but I've come around on this one. Maybe you don't have to put Escobar on the table. Maybe a package centering around Cody Johnson will be enough to get into the ballgame. But I would definitely go aggressively after Holliday right now.

Gotta admit, I was kind of surprised to see you supporting a trade on him. I know that it all depends on what you would have to give up, though.

I do agree that if you were going to take a flyer on him, now would be the time, because his value is down.

I just can't get on board with it, unless the cost were really low, which I can't see it being that low.

[Dreamscape]

While Holliday has been majorly disappointing this year, I think if you take him out of Oakland, the improvement, while it may not be substantial, will be significant enough to make an impact for the Braves.

Now, yes, this is completely based on whether or not Beane knows he's painted into a corner and second, what other teams are offering. The latter, I don't know. I think Beane's smart enough to know when he's lost and when he needs to save face. Since most teams are desperate for pitching help, I'm hopeful the Braves can sweep in and try to woo the A's.

[Andy G.]

Kelly Johnson would seem to fit perfectly in a trade with the A's. I don't want him traded, but if they are going to trade him, Oakland makes sense.

[BraveFan]

While Holliday has been majorly disappointing this year, I think if you take him out of Oakland, the improvement, while it may not be substantial, will be significant enough to make an impact for the Braves.

Now, yes, this is completely based on whether or not Beane knows he's painted into a corner and second, what other teams are offering. The latter, I don't know. I think Beane's smart enough to know when he's lost and when he needs to save face. Since most teams are desperate for pitching help, I'm hopeful the Braves can sweep in and try to woo the A's.

problem is that he is a free agent after the year and has Boras as his agent. Boras is known for not having his clients sign before they hit free agency but with the state of the economy and Holliday's down season maybe Boras would change his mind b/c that is the only way Wren should consider trading for him is if the Braves can have him for more than the rest of 2009. Unless somehow Beane doesn't demand much at all for Holliday and the Braves might be willing to part with Medlen and some other lesser prospects for half a year of Holliday. I agree with other posters that Oakland is a perfect fit for Kelly, I'd do a Kelly, Medlen, lower level prospect for Holliday deal but nothing more unless Boras allows him to sign a 1 or 2 year extension.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

For some odd reason I have seen Carl Crawford's name pop up often with off-handed remarks mentioning his salary jumps to 8 Mil next season and the Rays will not be interested in re-signing him at his asking price and may trade him for the right offer. I've always had a man-crush on Crawfords game. Here's his line so far this season.

SPLITS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Season 88 353 58 109 16 3 8 39 29 58 44 7 .309 .367 .439 .806

Amazing numbers. He's the kind of guy we should go after instead of Holliday. He would be a perfect fit in our line-up and would bring speed, and pop to the outfield. I would be willing to give up some very nice talent to have CC in left for a yr and half with a chance to re-sign him. He's still only 27 yrs old too. Maybe Freeman, KJ, Medlen and a fringe Prospect could do it? Young cheap talent TB covets for the big bat we need. A future Outfield of Heyward, Schaefer, and Crawford would be an amazing sight. Just something I would really like to see happen.

[BraveFan]

For some odd reason I have seen Carl Crawford's name pop up often with off-handed remarks mentioning his salary jumps to 8 Mil next season and the Rays will not be interested in re-signing him at his asking price and may trade him for the right offer. I've always had a man-crush on Crawfords game. Here's his line so far this season.

SPLITS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Season 88 353 58 109 16 3 8 39 29 58 44 7 .309 .367 .439 .806

Amazing numbers. He's the kind of guy we should go after instead of Holliday. He would be a perfect fit in our line-up and would bring speed, and pop to the outfield. I would be willing to give up some very nice talent to have CC in left for a yr and half with a chance to re-sign him. He's still only 27 yrs old too. Maybe Freeman, KJ, Medlen and a fringe Prospect could do it? Young cheap talent TB covets for the big bat we need. A future Outfield of Heyward, Schaefer, and Crawford would be an amazing sight. Just something I would really like to see happen.

I'd be more than willing to give up Schafer for him, remember we have McLouth to. I would be willing to give up Schafer, Medlen, and maybe Freeman for him. Bat Crawford leadoff and drop McLouth to fifth.

[bravos4evr]

I love Crawford...... cept that Bobby would'nt let him run and then he'd end up dropping 20 points in OBP whence he followed the "aggressive" batting tactics of TP!

[Andy G.]

If we can get McLouth for Morton, Hernandez and Locke, there's no way we should have to give up Schafer, Freeman and Medlen for Crawford.

[Andy G.]

Mark Bowman is saying that the Braves aren't looking to move Escobar at all. Here's exactly what he said in his latest blog entry.

Yunel Escobar returned to the Braves lineup on Thursday night and as long as he remains healthy, it appears he'll stay there throughout the remainder of the season and likely beyond.

While Escobar doesn't necessarily into the same untouchable category inhabited by Tommy Hanson, Jason Heyward and Brian McCann, he seemingly doesn't have much reason to wonder if he's going to be moved before the July 31 trade deadline.

Early Thursday evening, a Braves source once again confirmed that the club hasn't made a single attempt to even explore the possibility of moving Escobar. But he did confirm that rumor mill has at least led some teams to inquire about the availiability of the highly-skilled shortstop.

The Braves certainly aren't going to handcuff themselves by publicly stating that there is no way that they'd deal Esobar. I mean, I guess you have to leave the door open to the possibility that Rangers GM Jon Daniels might one day wake up in a charitable mood and offer an exchange of Neftali Feliz and Elvis Andrus.

In short, the Braves aren't going to move Escobar unless they are blown away with a blockbuster offer that provides the return of another high-quality, affordable shortstop.

I've never read his blog before today, and probably never will again. I don't know if we should even consider that this might be true. The organization might be telling him that they're not interested in moving Escobar just so he'll write it and they won't seem like they're desperate to get rid of him. I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised either way at this point.

[Chris_Moderato]

Mark Bowman is saying that the Braves aren't looking to move Escobar at all. Here's exactly what he said in his latest blog entry.



I've never read his blog before today, and probably never will again. I don't know if we should even consider that this might be true. The organization might telling him that they're not interested in moving Escobar just so he'll write it and they won't seem like they're desperate to get rid of him. I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised either way at this point.

Neftali Feliz and Elvis Andrus...now, why do those names sound familiar..?

[BraveFan]

Its probably unlikely but Heyward is tearing it up in AA and if it continues maybe just maybe he gets the early callup.

[Lauren T.]

I don't want to burn an option year on a guy who spent half this season in A-ball.

[Hobbes]

Just because a guy is performing at a new minor-league stop doesn't mean his is "ready". For one thing, the pitchers in his new league need to get a look at him and adjust, and then you get to see how he adjusts to them. This is all part of the learning process for a minor-leaguer.

[Andy G.]

I think we can all agree that Heyward is not a typical minor league player. He's the best minor league player there is at the moment, according to Baseball America. He's not going to need to spend nearly as much time at AA or AAA as your everyday prospect. I wouldn't be surprised if he spends August in AAA. He's definitely going to be in the majors by the All Star break of next year, IMO.

I also don't think that his options years will be all that important in the future, since it'd be crazy for the Braves not to sign him to a long term deal after his first or second year in the majors.

[Dreamscape]

Well, we don't know how he will start his career. Plenty of talented players have failed at their first and sometimes, second shots at the majors before settling in. It's very risky to sign a player before his arbitration years to a long-term deal. You are trying to save money, but you may also lose money. The best thing to do is take care of your prospect. Rather than simply renewing his contract after a good year, give him double. It may seem small, but shows the player that the team went out its way to try to take care of him. Goodwill is important.

But I do not think a long-term deal before arbitration years is generally a good idea. That said, if Heyward throws out .900 OPS years back-to-back, I'll make an exception.

[KB 34]

Wait to give a player a longterm deal that buys out arbitration until they breakout, not when they look like they're going to break out. McCann and Braun are examples of how to give longterm deals to young players correctly. Both sides took a bit of a gamble in the sense that who knows how a player will perform even if they're somewhat proven and who knows what kind of arbitrator will be assigned to the case. I'm glad a certain other longterm deal fell through even though it didn't seem like a horrible decision to make an offer at the time. My requirements for such a deal have gone up in response to it though.

[hoosjon]

And honestly, Frenchy is a good example of a time when you DON'T wanna give up the goods too early. I admit, I was angry with management when they didn't step up and he was complaining. But look how well it worked out. They DO seem to know what they're doing.

[quick]

Guys, we get Omar back shorrtly, who was tearing it up and could spell both GA and Chipper from time-to-time, and Hudson, whose first rehab start went well.

Omar will be a big help on offense, even though the offense seems magically to have rallied. Hudson gives us a surfeit of pitching, but we won't know much about him, really, until after the trade deadline and he's only signed through next year (club option).

Do we really think trading now is a good option? We are way behind the Phils (8 back in the loss column) and we didn't make hay while they were floundering, and while we are not so far back in the wild card, we have lots of teams to leap (4) to get to the wild card lead. In short, even with a great trade we have lots of hills to climb.

Shouldn't we just stand pat and see what can be done trading pitching for offense in the offseason? Omar may give us a little extra punch.

[jamminHANES]

Omar Infante....... savior of the season?

We're solid now, I really don't see where we would trade to improve our lineup.

[Andy G.]

I don't know BFH, Medlen and Kelly Johnson are a pretty good start for an offer in a trade, aren't they? We've also got Cody Johnson, who I keep suggesting for two main reasons. He's an outfielder and we have Schafer, McLouth and Heyward already. He's also the type of prospect that has "bust" written all over him. I'm not predicting that he will be a bust. I just don't know. The strikeouts are very alarming. He's displayed monster power in Myrtle Beach of all places, so I would think that he could interest teams as part of a package with Medlen and Johnson.

All that said, I don't think we really need to trade for someone that would require a package like that, and I don't see the Braves doing it. The thing is, those players are just sitting there waiting to be traded. Kelly lost his job(unless he makes a move back to left field), Medlen doesn't appear to be in the plans for the rotation, and like I said Johnson is blocked by other players. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.

[wordslayer©]

I can understand why people might want to trade KJ, but seriously, it really doesn’t make any sense to do so.

1) His value is low right now.

2) We really don’t have a pressing need at this time.

It’s like this. You have a guy who, admittedly, has been pretty bad this year, but honestly, smart teams are able to recognize bad players from good ones, and hopefully this organization recognizes that KJ is a good player playing poorly.

You have a young guy who is just getting into his prime. Keep him. You will *never* get in return on a trade what you could be giving up in his future production. Again, in every trade you have to look at risk versus reward, and there is a ton of risk here and not much reward. It’s just not smart making deals like that, and good teams don’t.

As for Cody Johnson…..If there were interest in him, then I’d trade him in a heartbeat. The majority of young pitchers who look like they are going be great rarely ever are. If I really wanted to try and do something to improve this team, I’d package KJ with a young pitcher we have and go from there.

[Dreamscape]

Psssssst...Johnson's an outfielder, slayer. :)

[wordslayer©]

Psssssst...Johnson's an outfielder, slayer. :)

I was going to go back and reread what I wrote, but honest to gawd, it was so lame that I just couldn't bear to read it again.

[ChopTime]

I'd keep Kelly as part of that bench that's been so good for us this year. He's a better option than Diory Hernandez, and that's going to be important if we make the playoffs.

[wordslayer©]

For those suggesting we just dump Kelly J...I agree with slayer, it doesn't make sense. However, making a smart trade in which we move Johnson for a piece (reliever or outfielder) we can retain for 2010 and 2011 and/or beyond will be wise, IMO.

Do you feel that now is the time to trade him? I'm not against trading him to fix a potential problem, but I think now is the absolute worst time you could do it.

Granted.....I think that smart teams will see him for what he will be and not what he is, but I still think it's a mistake to do something now, because of his recent poor play, and because we don't really have a good picture of what exactly we do need to do.

It all goes back to risk versus reward. The risk is high to move him now, while the reward would be small. A player coming into his prime. A player that can have power, plate discipline, and can be a terrific hitter. You move him now? At his worst? I would much rather bet on his being a better player next year over Prado being a good one.

I wouldn't be too critical of them moving him, and one could certainly make the argument to do so, but I really think it is a move that could very easily backfire on us in a big way. No way I'd do it. Maybe later, but not now.

But your point does have validity....but if I were a GM, I would never take that risk on him. A player like Prado, sure, but not KJ.

[jamminHANES]

Now is when you would trade Prado, not Kelly. Neither of them should be traded, it should be Kotchman who is traded for a quality reliever or prospects.

[BraveFan]

Now is when you would trade Prado, not Kelly. Neither of them should be traded, it should be Kotchman who is traded for a quality reliever or prospects.

Freddy Sanchez is available and I believe we should make a play for him and move over Prado to 1B. As we have seen Pittsburgh isn't looking for much via trade. I send them Kelly Johnson as a replacement for Sanchez and a two mid level prospects.

[Dreamscape]

I wouldn't make that trade unless the prospects were coming to the Braves. Why would I want an overpaid version of Prado to move Prado to first?

[BraveFan]

I wouldn't make that trade unless the prospects were coming to the Braves. Why would I want an overpaid version of Prado to move Prado to first?

B/c one more Prado is better than one Kotchman and that would be an offensive upgrade. Kotchman is one of the worst hitting firstbasemen in the game, a 1B guy needs to have some pop and Casey has non and seems to only get hits with nobody on base and has no speed. He is a great fielder and probably deserves a gold glove but offers nothing offensively at the position that is supposed to have the most offense.

[Dreamscape]

I'm not against Sanchez, but I'm not up for trading a guy who was a better player the last two years for a rental who was a weaker player. I agree that Kotchman looks pretty weak for his position, but I suggested Garko, who is no amazing player, but at least won't embarrass you and you acted like it wouldn't do anything positive. Your exact words were, "A trade for a hitter is only worth it if the player is a major upgrade." Sanchez is a major upgrade over Kotchman?

I could see acquiring Garko and using Kotchman for a reliever. It's a bit of a waste to keep Kotchman and acquire someone to take his job after all. I'm not a fan of backup 1B-only types, especially ones that won't be a homerun threat off the bench.

[Agent-X-]

You know, for what it's worth, this thread really doesn't handle its intended topic well. This is a discussin of what people think we should do... anyone else think we should just rename the thread?

I'd also like to allow trade rumors to be posted separately so it's easier to keep track of legitimate rumors that are still floating around. As it is, I'd have to check the last half dozen pages of this thread to find any real rumors.

[hoosjon]

If you want trade rumors, just google "Jon Heyman" or "Buster Olney".

Of course, you'd get INUNDATED with the talk of the Holliday trade to the Cards right now, but that also weighs in on some stuff said on this stuff.

Guys, we're not gettin' Holliday. :(

I'd say that giving up ANY prospects for Freddy "Dirty" Sanchez and Ryan Garko would both be mistakes. We've made trades that got rid of a lot of our holes this season. Unless we got a bat with some serious "pop," I see no reason to mess with what we've got goin' on.

[Davey Crockett]

Apparently there is a rumor the Braves are in coversations with the White Sox for a trade concerning Paul Konerko.. anyone heard anything?


http://www.panicfreaks.org/showthread.php?t=629380

[bravos4evr]

Hmmmm, Konerko for Kotchman(the link requires a membership so I didn't see the rumor)? Why would we do that? True Konerko hits bombs but he also makes a ton of $$$$ Only way this works is if we move two players for him and the Sox pick up a ton of his $$$$ .

I can see the upside of having his bat between Chip and Bmac, but his salary is pretty darn high. Too high for this to make sense unless we are somehow giving up some extra prospects so they pick up most of the tab....

[Dreamscape]

Seems like the kind of deal a White Sox fan thinks up to free up money.

[bravos4evr]

All money aside, I'd love to see his bat in the middle of our lineup ( especially since he seems to be slugging pretty well this year). But the only way they would do this deal is if we gave an extra man to offset them picking up a ton of the cash right?


edit: I just looked up his contract he's owed $12 mill a year for the next two years. This is a Sox fans pipe dream of a deal. No way we can pay him! Losing say KJ and Kotchman for him would only diffuse half of it....

[BraveFan]

mlbtraderumors reported yesterday that the Braves have been scouting Troy Glaus in the minors. He is coming off of shoulder surgery in his right throwing shoulder but is expected back soon. The Cards are willing to part with him and would probably pay off some of his salary. The potential of having a healthy Glaus in this lineup would be awesome. When healthy he is much better than other options being discussed. We probably could keep Kotchman on the team as a defensive replacement and incase Glaus got hurt. I think it is the best possible deal out there considering the players talent and the value we would have to give up.

[Lauren T.]

Troy Glaus was one of my non-Braves boyfriends when he was with the Angels. However, I really don't think we need another washed up veteran. Why do we need another third baseman?

[HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN]

the idea is to have play 1B in place of Gluas to potentially give us some more pop in our lineup since Kotch is pretty much a singles and doubles hitter...

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I wouldn't mind seeing it happen either. They were preparing him to come back as an OF but with the Holliday trade, they may not have room for him. After taking on most of Hollidays contract they may be very motivated to move him, considering he would be a very expensive bench bat. His .380 OBP and Hr power would slot in nicely at 4 or 5. Of course, thats if he is healthy.

[HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN]

I think they just had him in the OF to work on his arm strength...

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Nah, there were a few reports about it. His arm strength is not back. Thats why hes in the OF and not 3rd base. He can't make a 3rd to first throw and are preparing him to be an OF'er the rest of the season as a result.

http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2009/7/18/953967/cardinals-consider-moving-troy

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/other/sfl-19bb-brite2sbjul19,0,3403528.story

[HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN]

aww hadn't read that...thx

[JanShan12]

St. Louis radio stations have been saying that moving him to the OF would be just as hard for the team because he can barely throw. The relay man would have to run so far out, anyone would be able to tag from 3rd to home on a sac fly.

Until Glaus proves he's healthy, there is no way I would take a chance on him. It is taking him a long time to recover and that tells me he's getting too old.

[Wahoo]

I wouldn't mind having him at first. I'll take a flyer. He is only 32 years old.

[BraveFan]

Reports are that Glaus can't make a strong throw over 90 feet but when does a 1B make a throw longer than that? We could keep Kotch to bring in the late innings with a lead as a defensive replacement.

[JanShan12]

I don't know, guys. I'm just not sold on the idea. The way the radio and sports guys here in St. Louis complain about the guy... I've just heard too many negative things.

[Wahoo]

I don't know, guys. I'm just not sold on the idea. The way the radio and sports guys here in St. Louis complain about the guy... I've just heard too many negative things.

What are they saying about him?

[JanShan12]

What are they saying about him?

Most talk is about how he's stalling his progress and not trying to make it back this year. Other talk is that the Cardinals are hiding the severity of the injury. Who knows which is true... I just don't see him as a guy worth taking a chance on, but I could be wrong. He doesn't look like he would be able to move around much in the outfield and I'm a big fan of Kotchman, so that doesn't help. :)

[Wahoo]

At this point, I'd much rather add a bullpen arm, but I'm sure Bobby will only wear his ass out before September anyway, so maybe we should just stand pat.

[HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN]

Hudson will probally have to come back as a reliever so there's one option for the pen...I'd take Glaus at 1B, trade Kotchman in a deal for a reliever, release Norton, get Infante back healthy, Prado or Diaz can play 1B when Glaus needs to come out of the lineup...

My 25 Man Roster come August 15th:

JJ
Lowe
Vazquez
Hanson
KK

Soriano
Gonzalez
Moylan
EOF
Trade
Hudson
Acosta(I'd prefer Medlen, but he's better off getting innings in the minors)

1.McLouth
2.Prado
3.Chipper
4.Glaus
5.McCann
6.Escobar
7.Anderson
8.Diaz

1.Johnson
2.Infante
3.Church
4.Ross
5.Conrad

[CanadaBravesFan]

Braves interested in Michael Wuertz?

I just read on rotoworld, and is linked on FOXsports.com

Could it be KJ for that bullpen help?

[jamminHANES]

I really hope not because we could net a lot more for KJ/Prado in the off season. With Chipper's injury history and Infante being on the DL an injury to Chipper sans Kelly could destroy our post season hopes.

[Middle Man]

Braves interested in Michael Wuertz?

I just read on rotoworld, and is linked on FOXsports.com

Could it be KJ for that bullpen help?

This was on the Yahoo site a few days ago:

Jul 24 The Angels reportedly are making a big push to trade for Wuertz, the San Francisco Chronicle reports.
Recommendation: The Angels clearly have a need for relief help, and Wuertz has been on fire recently. But he's also not set to become a free agent until after the 2011 season, so there's not necessarily a big reason for the A's to deal him.

[Hobbes]

Yes, KJ has struggled this year. But in general he has proven himself to be a starter-quality 2B. Such a player is worth a good bit more than a middle-relief bullpen arm.

[Middle Man]

Yes, KJ has struggled this year. But in general he has proven himself to be a starter-quality 2B. Such a player is worth a good bit more than a middle-relief bullpen arm.


Yep, I'd love to get a useful middle-relief guy like Wuertz but I sure hope we don't get into any bidding wars over guys like that.

[JanShan12]

Some more info on Glaus... he was taken out of his minor league game today after 1 at bat with reoccurring back pain.