Get a friggin bat rant

[Gman]

When is Wren gonna act???? This is crazy to let all these great efforts by the starting rotation turn into losses because the Braves aren't getting a RH bat for the OF. How much could it possibly cost to get a Jake Willingham, Shelly Duncan, Jake Fox, etc? Stick them in LF. Platoon Francoeur and Blanco in RF. Release Norton or GAnderson (the keeper becomes the primary LH pinch hitter with Diaz the primary RH). Any one of Willingham, Duncan or Fox would be a big improvement to the production and setup of this lineup (which is pretty telling of what I think of the current offense). Go for Willingham first, Duncan second and Fox last resort. Get the one who you have to give up the least for. Look at what Branyan is doing in Seattle. These guys labled as AAAA can be had for next to nothing and can get hot for quite awhile. This offense desperately needs a shot in the arm with some RH pop. Who cares what it does to the defense in LF. It's not like GAnderson is saving any runs out there.

C'MON WREN, YOU HAVE TO DO SOMETHING !!! This is nuts watching these opportunities go out the window when someone who can be had as cheaply as one of those three could make a major difference over what we have. MAKE A MOVE DANGIT! :mad:

[Hobbes]

Amen brutha.

[KB 34]

Two average to below average outfielders would make a big difference. I don't understand why nothing has been done.

[JanShan12]

These next few series could really break us. If we don't get a new bat soon, the season is over. You can't wait until the trade deadline and hope to make up 10 games in the standings.

[sdp]

Interleague killed the Braves in 2007--they went 4-11 that year versus A.L. opponents.

If they could have went 10-5, they would have won the N.L. East with a 90-72 record. Instead, they finished third with an 84-78 record.

[Middle Man]

I'm of the opinion that Frank Wren was in the position of Jack Sparrow in 'The Curse of the Black Pearl'; he had one bullet and he had one shot to take and needed to use it wisely. He used it on McLouth.

Now...I'm not saying he doesn't have anything left to trade, but he doesn't have much left at the upper levels to trade for that impact, difference making bat.

However, instead of making a short-sighted move for a guy like a Matt Holliday using the bullet he had, he made a well thought-out move that presented itself in Nate McLouth; a guy he could retain beyond the season and would help us when we were better equipped to make moves.

It's an unpopular idea, but I think he has no choice but to sit and watch what his creation does for the next month...and it's not going to be pretty for the next two weeks. He probably has enough to make a trade for Matt Holliday or some other rental if he pleases, but he may be wiser to save it until the off-season and think of the marathon instead of the sprint. I mean....I know it worked well in the movies to throw the forks, spoons and knives into the cannon and fire those, but I'd personally prefer Wren to stray away from Captain Jack at this point. Save your forks and spoons so you may eat with utensils on another day. Have patience and go hungry for just a little longer...this team will tell you eventually if they are worth an all-out effort.t

I like this post - and I like the Pirates... movies too - which I never would have bothered to watch if my kids didn't pester me to watch them - so I like my kids too - even when they won't clean up their friggin' messes - but I digress.

I like the marathon approach because frankly, one extra bat (or pitcher, etc) rarely makes the difference between winning the division or losing it, IMO. The most effective time to pick up a rental player or two might be when you're pretty sure that you will make the playoffs without them. That can give you a little extra insurance in case of injuries or a crazy win streak by a rival and improve your chances of winning a WS (which ought to be the goal, right?), rather than simply sneaking into the playoffs and then getting your butt beat in the first round.

However, it seemed like the Braves were a little confused during the off-season as to which approach to take. They gave two fairly risky long-term contracts (marathon?) to two pitchers (old guy and foreign old guy), signed a pitcher with only 2 years left on his contract (sprint?) and pretty much did nothing for the obvious outfield deficiencies (broke?).

I like the McLouth move a lot and agree that we should not make further deals unless they fit this general mold. By all means, improve the team now if you can, but only if it also improves the team a year or two or three down the road. There's no more streak to protect so no need for any Teixeira-type trades.

[BraveFan]

With the Braves great pitching add two outfielders who aren't anything great would help Marlon Byrd and Mark DeRosa would make the Braves a lot better. Come to think of it if we could aquire those both I'd put DeRosa at second base b/c right now Diaz/Anderson is better than Smelly Johnson. Francoeur needs to go any way.

[Agent-X-]

Listen to the voice of reason (BFH) people. We have a good starting rotation, but we're more than a position short of contention. Even if we attempt to acquire some league average outfielders, no one wants our scrubs. It's going to cost youth or someone with some upside.

One way I can see us improving the outfield [if it's not a long term solution] is if we did an even swap with another team who is looking to contend. Someone out there who has one too many fourth outfielders could be looking to fill a backup role or position need.

[Andy G.]

Should we be so sure that Wren won't try to bring both Soriano and Gonzalez back next year? I don't know what kind of increase in salary they'll get. I know Soriano already makes a pretty good amount. With his injury history, will he be able to ask for much more?

[Andy G.]

With the season Soriano's having, I find it hard to imagine someone won't pay him to close for them. Or...be a high priced setup man a la Farnsworth when he left us. All honesty, I expect Soriano...injury history and all to make $10M with someone next year. After all, Kerry Wood is making $10-11M a year.

Gonzalez is a little different. He has more closing experience than Soriano...and ultimately, because he's left handed and for some reason some people don't trust lefties in the 9th, Gonzo could be a reasonable signing. Though, the market price could be in the Brian Fuentes range at $8-9M a year.
I just hate not going for it. I'd probably go for it every year if I were a GM, right or wrong.

It is nice to think about what we could get for those two at the deadline, though. There's always a few contending teams in desperate need of late inning relievers.

If we do stand pat, we'll also have the Medlen/Vazquez/Hudson situation in the winter. I'd be happy with putting either one in the rotation next year. If we pick up Hudson's option we can trade Vazquez for a good prospect. If we don't pick it up we still have that option because Medlen is there. Or we could trade Medlen in a deal for a bat.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm beginning to see your point. Wren doesn't have a clear cut plan moving forward, but he's got a lot of good options to make the team better for the future. Trading some of our best pieces for a rental that won't lead us to the World Series is just about the only thing he could do to ruin the situation he's created.

[wordslayer©]

I like this post - and I like the Pirates... movies too - which I never would have bothered to watch if my kids didn't pester me to watch them - so I like my kids too - even when they won't clean up their friggin' messes - but I digress.

I like the marathon approach because frankly, one extra bat (or pitcher, etc) rarely makes the difference between winning the division or losing it, IMO. The most effective time to pick up a rental player or two might be when you're pretty sure that you will make the playoffs without them. That can give you a little extra insurance in case of injuries or a crazy win streak by a rival and improve your chances of winning a WS (which ought to be the goal, right?), rather than simply sneaking into the playoffs and then getting your butt beat in the first round.

However, it seemed like the Braves were a little confused during the off-season as to which approach to take. They gave two fairly risky long-term contracts (marathon?) to two pitchers (old guy and foreign old guy), signed a pitcher with only 2 years left on his contract (sprint?) and pretty much did nothing for the obvious outfield deficiencies (broke?).

I like the McLouth move a lot and agree that we should not make further deals unless they fit this general mold. By all means, improve the team now if you can, but only if it also improves the team a year or two or three down the road. There's no more streak to protect so no need for any Teixeira-type trades.

Someone should "sticky" this post, because it is that good.

I tend to fall in line with BFH on this, too. If you can get anything, and it not cost much, then yeah, do it, but it would be in JS style to try and fix something that doesn't really have a guarantee.

[FrankEC]

I personally think this team needs more than a bat or two. It needs a whole new hitting philosophy from the top down. Pendelton's whole stay aggressive approach is just not working.

[luvdembravos]

I personally think this team needs more than a bat or two. It needs a whole new hitting philosophy from the top down. Pendelton's whole stay aggressive approach is just not working.

I totally agree with you and that's why I think the Braves' next move should be to fire TP (like this weekend).

Our hitters could definitely use a new set of eyes. I know some say it won't happen because Pendleton is rumored to be next in line to follow Cox... but I certainly hope not because he'd be a horrible manager too.

[BraveFan]

Move1: Reyes/DeVall for DeRosa
Move2: Moylan for Marlon Byrd

Lineup:

McClouth CF
Escobar SS
Jones 3B
McCann C
DeRosa 2B
Kotchman 1B
Byrd RF
Anderson / Diaz LF

[Agent-X-]

Move1: Reyes/DeVall for DeRosa
Move2: Moylan for Marlon Byrd

Lineup:

McClouth CF
Escobar SS
Jones 3B
McCann C
DeRosa 2B
Kotchman 1B
Byrd RF
Anderson / Diaz LF

But do you pull the plug on KJ knowing the odds are in favor of him performing much better the rest of the year and thereby lose a lot of trade value in him? It's worth the forethought.

I prefer to sell high on him at the next opportunity.

[BraveFan]

But do you pull the plug on KJ knowing the odds are in favor of him performing much better the rest of the year and thereby lose a lot of trade value in him? It's worth the forethought.

I prefer to sell high on him at the next opportunity.


For me KJ has proven that he isn't a consistent major league hitter, sure he can carry the club when he is hot but he can only stay hot for a few weeks then he is back to being a huge liability and unlike other players he doesn't make up for his offense with his defense. Its getting to the point where KJ is almost as bad as Francoeur.

[BigWorm]

Guys it's much easier to type Poo Poo than Project GAnderson.

[Agent-X-]

Guys it's much easier to type Poo Poo than Project GAnderson.

We've got the Poo Poo in left field. Someone get TP to clean up that Poo Poo!

:p

[Devil Wears Prado]

What do you guys think of Nick Swisher? He's been making a lot of mental mistakes recently with the Yankees, but he's still a good option for us I think. Because they will look to make room for Austin Jackson later this year, and with Damon and Melky set to play the Left and Center field, it looks like Swisher will probably go back to the bench. I know some people wanted him before the season started, but what do you guys think of him now? And then move Francouer (if it's even possible) for anything worth while to get him off the team. I like Swisher a lot because he is also a switch hitter. I don't know who we'd have to give up for Swisher though... maybe Medlen? (Even though we really need Medlen).

[hoosjon]

I just have to go back to the suggestions to lose TP as the hitting coach. Do we have a Minor League Head Coach or Hitting Coach that teaches patience? We need OBP from our EXISTING guys more than we need to bring in other guys, just to see their averages fall and their whiffs increase.

The Cubbies just fired their Hitting Coach based on their hitting THIS YEAR (minus Aramis Ramirez, I might add) ... last year, they were near the top in hitting in the NL! Where were we? Right were we are right now. 2 guys that hit opposite field and occasionally crush, both tending to need days off (Chip and B-Mac) and TONS of guys that just shut their eyes and swing as hard as they can 3 times.

I would've thought that Frenchy seeking the council of another hitting coach would've garnered more support for the idea of TP failing to get the job done.

Don't get me wrong! I LOVE Terry as a 3rd baseman and wish that we could keep him on in some capacity. Not as hitting coach and certainly not as head coach.

[Gman]

I still think a cheap pickup that gives this lineup a boost from the right side would have a bigger impact than some realize. A guy I was just looking at who could fit the bill as a nice fulltime add to this lineup and potentially come cheaply is Matt Murton. He seems to be nowhere in the Rockies plans and is unjustly carrying around that AAAA label. His major league career has spanned 945 at bats but he only got consistent atbats in '05-'07. The rest of the 115 atbats came between this year and last were sporadic Norton-like at bats. His production over the 830 atbats when he was playing with some regularity was .296bavg/.375obp/.455slug.

Admittedly, an .830 OPS for a corner OF isn't world beater stuff but what it would sure do a world of good for the Braves lineup. Plus Murton is only 27 so he was 23-to-25 yrs old when he was putting together that .830 OPS. That's a pretty promising start to a young career and certainly deserving of more opportunity. His career got derailed in Chicago with the Soriano move to LF and the signing of Fukudome. Then it got derailed in OAK when they decided to move Cust out to LF so they could run a bunch of old DH's (Sweeny, Piazza) out there hoping to build trade value. Them crazy cubs spent 8mil/yr on Fukudome who is pretty much the same player as the 500K/yr Murton except Fukudome has the arm to play RF and Murton doesn't.

The Rockies got Murton from the A's for a 25 yr old 2nd baseman whose been stuck in the AA Texas League since 2007. We gotta have stuff like that to give them, no? Get Murton and put him in LF, dfa Anderson and put the hottest (make that "least cold") bat between Diaz and Francoeur in RF.

Murton is currently down in AAA putting up a 1.141 OPS after an excellent spring training and an equally solid Mexican summer league. For a guy whose been on the losing end of a numbers game for 3 straight years you have to like how he's responded. Definitely worth a long look in my book.

[Dreamscape]

But is Murton the "bat" you want? Is this what the Braves are reduced to? Hoping a AAAA bat performs?

I mean, sure, give him a shot, but I don't think it does much to change the fact that this team is not going to win this year.

[IkeWagner]

I've always liked Murton, and would love to see him in a Braves uniform. But I don't think we will dfa Anderson.

[Gman]

But is Murton the "bat" you want? Is this what the Braves are reduced to? Hoping a AAAA bat performs?

I mean, sure, give him a shot, but I don't think it does much to change the fact that this team is not going to win this year.

I don't think you have to "hope" it with Murton. He's already done it pretty consistently when given regular at bats.

I also don't agree with those who are adamantly saying the Braves can't win this year. It's a little early to toss in the towel. Sometimes it just takes a couple of pieces working well together that weren't before to make the whole lineup work better. If Kotch comes back and puts up similar numbers as Murton has in his career (Kotchman was a pretty consistent .800+ OPS guy albeit pre Pendleton) then all of a sudden you have two everyday players back-to-back putting up an .800+ OPS for the 2nd half. To me KJ has a pretty good chance based on his history to put up at least an .800 OPS the 2nd half. That's 3 out of the 4 parts of the bottom of the order who could put up that kind of OPS.

This year the Braves have gotten the following OPS out of the bottom of their order 5th (.714), 6th (.728), 7th (.576) and 8th (.654). Despite that they are still hovering around .500. You put an .800+ OPS guy in three of those 4 spots and suddenly it's a significantly better offense. It isn't going to take much more than that kind of improvement to get a lot more wins out of the Braves starting rotation. The Braves have lost 12 games when they've given up 4 runs or less. They've lost 7 when they've given up 3 runs or less. It wouldn't have taken much more than what I layed out above to cause a 5 or 6 game swing. And, I really don't think it's much of a stretch to expect Murton, KJ and Kotch to all have around an 800ops in the 2nd half.

I do agree though, they need to move Pendleton out of the hitting coach role. He hasn't seemed to have gotten results from anyone for quite some time and has even had more than a few performance regressions over the last 3 years. He needs to go on to something else. What he and Jarmillo did to Francoeur by drilling "hands inside the ball" into his head was the worst thing they could do to a guy with his fundamental swing flaw. To me it shows TP doesn't see root causes but instead falls back on tired old baseball adages.

[Dreamscape]

I don't know how you defined Kotchman as a consistent .800 OPS guy when he only has two seasons to really base any of that on, one year when he was above .800 and last year when he wasn't (even before the trade). I'm also not sure Murton wouldn't see his numbers fall from going from a hitter's park like Wrigley to a pitcher's park like Turner Field. Again, you're hoping it won't, but I think chances are good it will. In his one "semi-everyday" year, he posted a .918 OPS at Wrigley and a .708 OPS away. I know most players, especially young, are better at home than away, but a .200 OPS difference? Now, sandwiched around those years were better away numbers than at home, but both of those years (2005 more than 2007) were very low in at-bats, which can be highly influenced by hot streaks or a few bad weeks to really make much of a judgement.

Again, you hope he won't act like a guy who was highly influenced by Wrigley, but we would see. And again, I'm not against trading for him, I'm just tired of the attempts to float in a sea of medocrity. You want this team to compete this year? Then you support adding rentals you have a very, very good belief will produce. You want to trade a prospect-rich package for Matt Holliday? That's believing you can compete in my mind.

Or start considering dealing away Gonzo or Soriano (or both, which I am considering). Deal away Francoeur for nothing. DFA the guy in left. Consider dealing Kotchman. This is looking toward the future. I agree the Braves aren't that far away from being a good team. I disagree that they can be that good team this year, though. They are 6.5 games back and have shown no signs of improvement since day one. Why bother believing if a non-sucky bat joins the outfield...if KJ finally turns it around...if Kotchman hits more like a first baseman than a middle infielder...if the bullpen keeps it together despite being abused...?

It seems to be forgotten or ignored that they have dug a hole already. Sure, there is a lot of baseball to be played, but a player can only do so much. Mark Teixeira is a great player, but over three months, he might make you three to six wins better. And you're not talking about an impact player, but a league average guy.

Again, not to completely contradict myself, if the Rockies want to deal Murton for nothing, awesome. I doubt they will, but if they did, lucky us. But this team is floudering and should be looking to deal veterans. Trying to just do enough to be competitive has caused the last three years to happen. Committ one way or the other and do it now.

[Gman]

And again, I'm not against trading for him, I'm just tired of the attempts to float in a sea of medocrity. You want this team to compete this year? Then you support adding rentals you have a very, very good belief will produce. You want to trade a prospect-rich package for Matt Holliday? That's believing you can compete in my mind.

Or start considering dealing away Gonzo or Soriano (or both, which I am considering). Deal away Francoeur for nothing. DFA the guy in left. Consider dealing Kotchman. This is looking toward the future.
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But this team is floudering and should be looking to deal veterans. Trying to just do enough to be competitive has caused the last three years to happen. Committ one way or the other and do it now.

15mil on Lowe, 14mil + good prospects for Vasquez, 7mil for Kawakami. That's making a lot more commitment then you're giving them credit for making this year.

They've improved the starting rotation from a disaster area the last 2 years to the point where it ranks no lower than 3rd in the NL in OBP-allowed, WHIP, Slug and OPS. That's a huge improvement. To do it they had to make sacrifices to the offense that they could have built this winter. I'm sure in hindsight they would have changed the Kawakami part of that strategy. Especially had they known that 4 guys they were counting on for at least something close to NL average production GAnderson, KJ, Francoeur and Schafer were going to give them sub-.700 ops instead. To their credit they grabbed McClouth a couple weeks ago. That's one improved piece over what they had going on with Schafer.

Getting one more piece and having a couple guys hit like they are capable of hitting and this becomes a much better team. How much better is hard to guess but as the season wears on teams that have rotation depth problems usually run into trouble (e.g. Mets and Phils). If a few of the boat-anchors on this offense don't come around enough before mid-july to provide this team with a solid chance there'll still be plenty of time to deal either Gonzalez, Soriano and/or Vasquez. To me, doing a quick inexpensive patch now (Murton, Shelly Duncan, whoever) will go a long way toward keeping them afloat while they find out if at least a couple of these guys are going to come out of their coma. Specifically Kotch, KJ, Francoeur and Schafer.

[The Rap]

The only problem I have with this entore discussion is that none of us has a clue as to what Wren is doing or not doing. Getting what we need is harder than we can imagine. Bowman just wrote about a deal Francouer for Jeremy Hermida and the first thing many ask is why would the Marlins do it? I think the only hope fopr dealing him is to Minnesota who might be losing patience waiting for Delmon Young or toe KC where Dayton knows Jeff very well and might still belive in him and maybe David DeJesus could be pried away.

[Dreamscape]

15mil on Lowe, 14mil + good prospects for Vasquez, 7mil for Kawakami. That's making a lot more commitment then you're giving them credit for making this year.
It's not commitment when you ignore pieces of your team. The Braves consistently do this every offseason. They look at the previous season and find the biggest "problem." They follow by attempting to address that problem. But a smaller problem then becomes the biggest problem. Rinse and repeat.

We all knew the rotation needed to be addressed. $36 million is nice, but what about the bullpen depth? Ignored. What about the offense that lost Mark Teixeria? Ignored.

Now, they could not have seen KJ's upcoming struggles as bad as they were. Jeff Francoeur, they could have expected, though. Maybe you can argue that he shouldn't be this bad, but he's been pretty bad for awhile now. Anderson posted a .758 OPS last year and was moving to the NL, where your numbers take a fall, and from a stadium that played to hitting last year to a stadium that traditionally helps pitchers. You couldn't expect a sub .750 OPS? Casey Kotchman has had one okay year and one bad year. You couldn't expect him to not be considerably better than he was last year (even before the trade)? And let's not forget their answer to center field was let Josh Anderson and Gregor Blanco battle it out and hope that Jordan Schafer can get ready in a hurry.

No, this team did not commit to winning. Adding McLouth is nice, but this team has considerable weaknesses. You don't get to where they are without having them. You can add a slew of AAAA bats and hope it all works out...that Chipper Jones will stay healthy and Escobar will grow up and the black holes will see light and the bullpen won't self-destruct anymore than it has, but honestly, that's not reality in my mind and I can't suspend it to make it so.

[KB 34]

Also telling in the way the Braves weren't building entirely for this season is the structure of Lowe's contract. Usually I'd expect the Braves to pay 4 years $60 million something like 11, 15, 17, 17. Another $4 million would have come in handy this offseason. Backload Kawakami's deal and we're in business for making a run at Dunn. Instead the Braves made more future financially responsible moves and didn't move their top prospects for rental big namers. It seems the Braves tried to focus on both the future and now which is really tough because a lot of times neither aspects work out quite as planned. See Schafer in AAA right now.