Rate the Deadline Trade

[alaskabravesfan]

Incoming: Ankiel, Farnsworth
Outgoing: Blanco, Chavez, Collins

Don't base your grade on whether or not you wanted something different. Just vote on the value of the incoming versus outgoing talent.

[bravos4evr]

I gave it a B-, not great, but not terrible. Ankiel will contribute some power, Farnsworth will be greatly appreciated and might help poor Moylan not have to pitch every dang day!

plus our pen is just filthy now.

6th Moylan
7th Farnsworth/venters
8th Saito
9th wagner

if we are leading after 5 or 6 I reckon we are going to win most of the time....hopefully Ankiel can stay healthy and put 15 or so over the fence

[MSbravefan]

I gave it a B-, not great, but not terrible. Ankiel will contribute some power, Farnsworth will be greatly appreciated and might help poor Moylan not have to pitch every dang day!

plus our pen is just filthy now.

6th Moylan
7th Farnsworth/venters
8th Saito
9th wagner

if we are leading after 5 or 6 I reckon we are going to win most of the time....hopefully Ankiel can stay healthy and put 15 or so over the fence

Hopefully Bobby will use the newfound bullpen depth (even moreso when Eric O'Flaherty comes back) to start resting Wags and Saito more to keep them fresh down the stretch.

[KB 34]

Both the deals were solid but by no means did the Braves steal anyone so I'll go with a B.

[007]

D-

Not sold on any improvement. Hope I'm dead wrong.

[Lauren T.]

Ankiel's better than Blanco and Farnsworth's better than Chavez. Tiny Tim was too far down in the system to know if he's going to turn into anything one day... we're trying to win it for Bobby now. Good move with what was out there and what we were willing to give up. I gave it a B.

[Gman]

I gave it a B. I posted my reason in another spot Ankiel Kills Braves Rivals (http://www.chopnation.com/boards/showthread.php?t=677&page=21)

[quick]

I gave it a C; a passing grade. I would rather have had Lance B., but we just don't have Yankee money and that is the rub. Farnsworth will help take some of the load off. I don't think he'll be much in high pressure spots, though.

Hopefully the middle of the order can start driving in runs--that is our biggest problem. If Glaus sits, then Ski needs to be driving in runs. I think HeyWood's hand is much better, but not 100%, as he still cannot reach out and around outside pitches and then roll his top hand, popping the ball, like the did early in the season. So, right now, our 2, 3, and 4/5 hitters aren't getting many RBIs, Mac being the sole exception. I am glad we are still getting men on base, but we are not driving them home.

This points out an interesting fact: In a previous thread, I was pummelled for believing RBIs are a legit stat. Perhaps looking at batting avg with runners in scoring position with RBIs make more sense, but having a high OBP but not getting runners home still doesn't score runs, even if it does create opportunities to score. The Braves are living proof that high OBP is only part of the equation....

[Wahoo]

I gave it a C; a passing grade. I would rather have had Lance B., but we just don't have Yankee money and that is the rub. Farnsworth will help take some of the load off. I don't think he'll be much in high pressure spots, though.

Hopefully the middle of the order can start driving in runs--that is our biggest problem. If Glaus sits, then Ski needs to be driving in runs. I think HeyWood's hand is much better, but not 100%, as he still cannot reach out and around outside pitches and then roll his top hand, popping the ball, like the did early in the season. So, right now, our 2, 3, and 4/5 hitters aren't getting many RBIs, Mac being the sole exception. I am glad we are still getting men on base, but we are not driving them home.

This points out an interesting fact: In a previous thread, I was pummelled for believing RBIs are a legit stat. Perhaps looking at batting avg with runners in scoring position with RBIs make more sense, but having a high OBP but not getting runners home still doesn't score runs, even if it does create opportunities to score. The Braves are living proof that high OBP is only part of the equation....


Duh, no one said that. But RBIs are a product of opportunities, and every one on this roster has had a crap ton of opportunities, which is why this offense has scored as many runs as it has. However, without the slugging to go with it, it will continue to be vulnerable to peaks and valleys. We're seeing a valley right now. OBP + slug = best indicator for productivity (i.e. OPS). Right now we rank 1 in OBP and near last in slugging, which is why our OPS is middle of the pack. I think our actual run production is a little out of whack, and so I hate to say it, but I think we're probably going to see a trend of lower offensive outputs over the next couple of weeks. The Ankiel day probably won't help this, but at least our bullpen received some much needed depth.

[quick]

Duh, no one said that. But RBIs are a product of opportunities, and every one on this roster has had a crap ton of opportunities, which is why this offense has scored as many runs as it has. However, without the slugging to go with it, it will continue to be vulnerable to peaks and valleys. We're seeing a valley right now. OBP + slug = best indicator for productivity (i.e. OPS). Right now we rank 1 in OBP and near last in slugging, which is why our OPS is middle of the pack. I think our actual run production is a little out of whack, and so I hate to say it, but I think we're probably going to see a trend of lower offensive outputs over the next couple of weeks. The Ankiel day probably won't help this, but at least our bullpen received some much needed depth.

Thanks for the "Duh". It didn't seem so clear a few weeks ago, based upon our debate. As I said before, opportunities are nice; capitalizing is nicer, and RBIs do not just happen because you have chances; you must capitalize and I'd rather have a good clutch hitter (a guy who hits well with RISP) than a "great" hitter, like Gary Sheffield was for us a few years ago. He melted in the clutch for us.

[bravos4evr]

oh not the clutch debate again.....

[Dreamscape]

You mean when Sheff had 132 RBIs and hit .379 with an 1.093 OPS with RISP?

RBI = a really, really awful way to try to find a "clutch hitter." Regardless, OPS is a fun, easy stat and it explains a lot about Atlanta. The Braves are doing half of the OPS battle, absolutely sucking at the other half. You have to hit for some power. It's not RBIs that matter because they come with extra-base hits. A singles and walks team will leave a lot of runners on base simply because it really is hard to string together singles, walk, and reaching on errors too often. The Braves did against the Marlins, but what it boils down to is hitting the ball to the gaps and over the fences. The Braves are getting doubles, but have only hit 86 HR. Five teams in the NL have fewer longballs. Those teams don't have the Braves OBP to even have an average offense. The fact that they have average 4.58 R/G is entirely due to the opportunities the offense has with so many runners on. Unless they start hitting the ball over the fence, though, their offense will continue to sputter and leave runners on. Ankiel isn't the big bopper they needed so the last two months are completely on the bats of McCann, Chipper, Glaus, and Heyward to find their power strokes.

[luvdembravos]

Thanks for the "Duh". It didn't seem so clear a few weeks ago, based upon our debate. As I said before, opportunities are nice; capitalizing is nicer, and RBIs do not just happen because you have chances; you must capitalize and I'd rather have a good clutch hitter (a guy who hits well with RISP) than a "great" hitter, like Gary Sheffield was for us a few years ago. He melted in the clutch for us.

Is there a place on the web where one can find how a player hits with RISP? It seems to me that Melky Cabera really sucks in those situations...at least during the times I watch him hit.

[wordslayer©]

You mean when Sheff had 132 RBIs and hit .379 with an 1.093 OPS with RISP?

RBI = a really, really awful way to try to find a "clutch hitter." Regardless, OPS is a fun, easy stat and it explains a lot about Atlanta. The Braves are doing half of the OPS battle, absolutely sucking at the other half. You have to hit for some power. It's not RBIs that matter because they come with extra-base hits. A singles and walks team will leave a lot of runners on base simply because it really is hard to string together singles, walk, and reaching on errors too often. The Braves did against the Marlins, but what it boils down to is hitting the ball to the gaps and over the fences. The Braves are getting doubles, but have only hit 86 HR. Five teams in the NL have fewer longballs. Those teams don't have the Braves OBP to even have an average offense. The fact that they have average 4.58 R/G is entirely due to the opportunities the offense has with so many runners on. Unless they start hitting the ball over the fence, though, their offense will continue to sputter and leave runners on. Ankiel isn't the big bopper they needed so the last two months are completely on the bats of McCann, Chipper, Glaus, and Heyward to find their power strokes.

First off, let me say, there is no one on here I agree more with than you.

However, I don't want to make this a which is better quote, because you do need both OBP and Slugging. With that being said, the braves are probably 5th or 6th in the league in runs per game, while being 12th in slugging.

If I had to field a team of either Kenny Lofton's or Dave Kingman's, I'm taking the Lofton one.

In other words, our offense has done quite well, even though the slugging percentage is poor. I don't know that it will continue to do so well, but as long as our OBP remains high, I really don't expect to see our offense sputter.

[Dreamscape]

Luv, check out the individual player's page at baseball-reference.com. You can check any particular year or career numbers for RISP under the splits.

Word, I agree completely. Sorry I wasn't more clear. The Braves need both OBP and SLG and that's why I love OPS. You can't be a potent offense with one quality over the other. If I have to choose, I'd go with OBP, but regardless, you will not reach your team's potential without slugging. The Braves will score runs because abundant opportunities will allow that because the idea is no matter who is at the plate, at least 2 times out of 10, he (not including pitchers) will get a hit with a runner in scoring position and if you put enough runners on, eventually someone will get that hit. But without hitting for extra bases, you are getitng one run when a homer might plate three. And since Troy Glaus has reverted back to April Glaus, the offense is sputtering right along.

Anyone think the Braves need to lock up Glaus still?

[quick]

You mean when Sheff had 132 RBIs and hit .379 with an 1.093 OPS with RISP?

RBI = a really, really awful way to try to find a "clutch hitter." Regardless, OPS is a fun, easy stat and it explains a lot about Atlanta. The Braves are doing half of the OPS battle, absolutely sucking at the other half. You have to hit for some power. It's not RBIs that matter because they come with extra-base hits. A singles and walks team will leave a lot of runners on base simply because it really is hard to string together singles, walk, and reaching on errors too often. The Braves did against the Marlins, but what it boils down to is hitting the ball to the gaps and over the fences. The Braves are getting doubles, but have only hit 86 HR. Five teams in the NL have fewer longballs. Those teams don't have the Braves OBP to even have an average offense. The fact that they have average 4.58 R/G is entirely due to the opportunities the offense has with so many runners on. Unless they start hitting the ball over the fence, though, their offense will continue to sputter and leave runners on. Ankiel isn't the big bopper they needed so the last two months are completely on the bats of McCann, Chipper, Glaus, and Heyward to find their power strokes.


In the postseason, Sheff disappeared in 2003. The postseason is CLUTCH time and here is what he did:

He had 14 at-bats, all in the 3 hole, the most dominant slot in the order; he had 2 hits, and 2 walks; and his SLUG for the series was .143. His batting average was .143, and his OBP was .294. He had 1 RBI for the series. He had 1 RBI in five chances with RISP (4 AB, 1 walk) and his average with RISP was .250 (1 for 4). His one RBI was on a ground out. His hit did not plate a run.

So, he puts up awesome numbers during the season, feasts on the Expos, and when it is CLUTCH time, he disappears, and most of all with RISP! (To be fair, Chipper had only one really good game, too--the game where Sheff sat).

"CLUTCH" can be made objective--average with RISP; OBP after the 7th inning; RBI after the 7th inning; etc. We all could probably design a "CLUTCH" category and objectify it. That said, we need at least to have timely hitting. I don't mind leaving some runners on so long as we can get drive them in during the last few innings of the game, when you should succeed against the other team's bullpen.

That said, your post about OBP + SLUG makes sense--I get it, and I know we have a huge problem in the middle of our order as neither Glaus nor Chipper are driving in runs. As far as Glaus, he appears wounded. Hopefully he'll be back to May Glaus after a week of rest. As far as locking him up next year, we need to see how his health looks, for sure. He looks pretty gimpy.

Maybe Heywood will not stand there and take strike three at the end of the game tonight. I'm frustrated, as I can hear the Philthies' footsteps.

[wordslayer©]

Anyone think the Braves need to lock up Glaus still?

I never bought into the Glaus glory ride, because I don't like 35 year old, former steroid using, brittle ball players. So no, he shouldn't be signed.

Okay, what you said now makes sense to me. It does take both, I do agree. I am just a huge fan in OBP.

Have you ever noticed how, when a player is struggling, everyone always "sees" how he isn't bending at the knees, arching his back, elbow flying open...etc. It's funny how flaws are always identified when a player is doing poorly. It's almost like we can't see it until we know it's there.

[Wahoo]

In the postseason, Sheff disappeared in 2003. The postseason is CLUTCH time and here is what he did:

He had 14 at-bats, all in the 3 hole, the most dominant slot in the order; he had 2 hits, and 2 walks; and his SLUG for the series was .143. His batting average was .143, and his OBP was .294. He had 1 RBI for the series. He had 1 RBI in five chances with RISP (4 AB, 1 walk) and his average with RISP was .250 (1 for 4). His one RBI was on a ground out. His hit did not plate a run.

So, he puts up awesome numbers during the season, feasts on the Expos, and when it is CLUTCH time, he disappears, and most of all with RISP! (To be fair, Chipper had only one really good game, too--the game where Sheff sat).

"CLUTCH" can be made objective--average with RISP; OBP after the 7th inning; RBI after the 7th inning; etc. We all could probably design a "CLUTCH" category and objectify it. That said, we need at least to have timely hitting. I don't mind leaving some runners on so long as we can get drive them in during the last few innings of the game, when you should succeed against the other team's bullpen.

That said, your post about OBP + SLUG makes sense--I get it, and I know we have a huge problem in the middle of our order as neither Glaus nor Chipper are driving in runs. As far as Glaus, he appears wounded. Hopefully he'll be back to May Glaus after a week of rest. As far as locking him up next year, we need to see how his health looks, for sure. He looks pretty gimpy.

Maybe Heywood will not stand there and take strike three at the end of the game tonight. I'm frustrated, as I can hear the Philthies' footsteps.

The irony is that it should actually be easier to get a hit when runners are on base.

The problem with looking at playoff stats is that they are such a small sample size. There could be many reasons to explain poor performance over such a short period. The most popular rationalization is that he choked, but you have to look deeper at that. Chipper has had his fair share of stinkers in the post season. Just saying it.

As far as Heyward is concerned, I hate to be negative, but I think we will have to wait until next season to see the real Jason Heyward. His hand needs to completely heal. He just is not hitting the ball with nearly the authority he was in April.

[luvdembravos]

I went to baseball reference.com per Dream's recommendation and did a quick check (BA only) of how 10 Braves are doing w/RISP. Just as I suspected, Melky is terrible this year in those situations:

1. Infante .364
2. Heyward . 318
3. Jones .311
4. Diaz .290
5. Gonzalez .288
6. Glaus .268
7. McCann .260
8. Prado .242
9. Ankiel .233 (only 19 games... .194 in 2009 and .267 in 2008)
10. Cabrera .225

[warefreak]

I graded it a C. We needed a big bopper and we failed. We did improve our team however. I just think Dunn would have been a perfect fit for us or even a Michael Bourne. I don't know if Bourne was available however. With Prado out I am seriously worried about our ability to score runs now. I still have nightmares about the beginning of the season and how horrible we were until Prado came on and started actually hitting in the leadoff spot.

The best part is we didn't get rid of any of our top talent in the pitching side. I would have liked to keep Collins, but with all due respect to relievers... I think the best prospects are always going to be starters.

[-Dr. Brave-]

Anyone think the Braves need to lock up Glaus still?

Yes, please, and throw away the key.

[Hobbes]

Anyone think the Braves need to lock up Glaus still?

Yes, please, and throw away the key.
:rimshot: