Braves in the market for right handed OF bats!

[bravos4evr]

acoording to this article : http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-June-052910

The Barves are looking at Josh Wllingham, Corey Hart and Jose Batista to fill our needs in LF!

Sounds surprising on the heels of FW's most recent comments eh?

Personally, I like Willingham as IMO he is the most complete hitter of the three.

[bravos4evr]

Willingham will prolly take one of our A level pitchers, a throw in AA guy and maybe ptbnl, Hart and Bautista , IMO, aren't worth more than a mid level prospect and a Mike Dunn.

[CanadaBravesFan]

From what I am hearing up here, Bautista can be had for pitching prospect(s). I wouldnt break the bank, but considering the power, it may be worth a look. Besides that, his D is better than I expected. If you have not watched many Jays games you should. Very interesting offensive approach. Swing hard, at everything. :)

[Garydee]

Could you imagine how good our offense would be if we added Willingham and a well Heyward would come back? I might be dreaming but it's a good dream.:)

[bravos4evr]

Where would we hit Willingham and Heyward?

Prado
Willingham
Chipper
Glaus
McCann
Heyward
Escobar
Mclouth/Melky

dang that just looks 110 win filthy

[bravos4evr]

Now, figuring that Bautista would come the cheapest.... why not pick him up while he's hot (especially since he can play 3rd) and plug him in the 6th spot ?

Prado
Heyward
Chip
Glaus
Mcann
Bautista
escobar
mclouth/melky

IF he can stay hot (and considering his numbers last year once he was made a starter ...it looks consistent) That would add a ton of power depth coming from the 6th spot in the order....

[Dreamscape]

Bautista is pretty intriguing. The .232 average concerns you, take some comfort in the .225 BABIP, nearly 50 points off his career average. His batting average should increase. The one worrisome part...no matter where you put him, he's a pretty bad fielder.

[quick]

Bautista is pretty intriguing. The .232 average concerns you, take some comfort in the .225 BABIP, nearly 50 points off his career average. His batting average should increase. The one worrisome part...no matter where you put him, he's a pretty bad fielder.

Having watched a few games with Ski in left and Melky in right, and the below average fielding that results, this would make me nervous. In fact, when Melky has played in CF, he just looks terrible--slow, unable to cut off gappers. I know I am spoiled having seen Andruw roam out there for so many years, but good defense is a must. Heck, the Nats ignored D an opted for O and look where it has gotten them so far....

[bravos4evr]

That being said LF has always been a spot where you can stick a power bat with an iron glove. Now don't get me wrong,just like BFH I much prefer the total hitting package of Willingham(tho his D ain't an improvement over Bautista) but his pricetag(if available) is going to be one good prospect more AT LEAST! I'm saying that for the price, Bautista may be the best answer.

I just think that with the above roster I put up and a bench of Infante, Hinske,Diaz,Ross and Conrad, we would have a very potent offense!

[Dreamscape]

Having watched a few games with Ski in left and Melky in right, and the below average fielding that results, this would make me nervous. In fact, when Melky has played in CF, he just looks terrible--slow, unable to cut off gappers. I know I am spoiled having seen Andruw roam out there for so many years, but good defense is a must. Heck, the Nats ignored D an opted for O and look where it has gotten them so far....
UZR would disagree. Eric Hinske is actually a fairly solid corner outfielder and has been for a few years now. He won't win any Gold Gloves, but he doesn't hurt you. Melky is also a corner outfielder, but when he has played CF the last three years (sample size isn't very high), he's at least been average.

I don't necessarily disagree that neither defender is ideal and Bautista wouldn't help matters, but the reason I would value the numbers a little higher is because they compare that player to the league and I think that's pretty important. Melky is not a plus defender in CF (and oddly has looked worse in the corner positions), but then, there simply aren't that many plus defenders in center either. Same thing with Hinske, who is probably helped out greatly by the number of, as bravos eluded to, stone-gloved guys who are thrown out in left.

Overall, I think if the Braves choose to go down this road, they have to be very clear that the big guns are off the table. If they can't bring in Willingham, Bautista, Hart, etc., fine. All of these players bring with them question marks that I don't think the Braves can afford to give up a prized arm for.

[bravos4evr]

I honestly think Bautista could be had for a secondary pitching prospect, a middle infield prosepct and a ptbnl. Willingham will prolly require one of our prized arms tho... Maybe Hart too (which is poppycock).

However, I bet a Medlen for Willingham deal straight up would work.... But I don't really like that much either, not unless the uber stat junkies expect him to fall off and only develop as a #4/#5 type starter..... Once more teams see him I mean.(the more I think about it, the Nats would have to give us a prospect in that kind of deal, to offset the control years of the respective major leaguers)

[bravos4evr]

Well, I mentioned that in my post. (that they would have to send us something else too) Does anyone know if the Nats have a good 3rd base prospect in the minors? Cuz maybe we could do a little super deal where we send them Medlen(or one of our untouchables) along with a couple more guys and we get their corner infield prospect and another guy and Willingham.....

I just am not really that excited about Hart or even Bautista really.... Willingham makes me happy tho!

What about a tentavie deal that hinges on him signing an extension with us of at least 2 more years?.....anything? :-)

[Gman]

I'd rank them as Willingham at the top by a lot, followed by Bautista and then Hart. Willingham has always been a consistent, complete hitter. The only thing that has ever really slows him down offensively is a chronic back problem. But from a hitting perspective he's well above the other two. He knows the pitchers in this division way better than the other two as well. The negatives: He's not a solid defender and he'll be going into his final year of arby in 2011. If he keeps up his current level of production he could easily net about $7-8 mil in arby. To keep that in perspective that's $6mil more than Hinske which is way out of whack, so I'm sure he'd only be a 3 month rental. Offer accordingly Wren. Might the Braves look at this as an opportunity to deal Escobar along with a C/C+ wing for Desmond and Willingham? That would be an interesting trade to debate.


As for Bautista, he provides some flexibility as an emergency plug in at 3b, 2b given he has put in a good bit of time at the ML level at those posits. He also has pedestrian COF skills. However, this sudden power surge of his is a bit too immense to expect it to continue. It's hard to see an 18% hr/fb rate continuing for a 29 yr old guy who never slugged over .420 in his major league career. It happens but it's pretty rare in the pre & post steroid eras. He does work counts, takes walks and gets the ball airborne a lot.

Corey Hart has always looked like a young version of Jermaine Dye to me both offensively and defensively. Seems like it would be cheaper to just go rent Dye then to pay for what may be Hart's career year. The good part of Hart is that he started becoming a more selective hitter last year although the overall numbers for him last year looked quite bad. So, this could just be him beginning to cash in on his improvements last year as a hitter. He's another guy with an 18+% hr/fb rate which is fluky even for the NL central. So the HRs will probably level off a lot if he switches to the NL East. I think his value to the Braves will be well below the prospect cost to get. Plus he might even merit more in arby then Willingham given his power numbers this year. Hart like Willingham is coming into his last (and most expensive) arby year.

[Dreamscape]

Tell them to pick a name in the minor leagues that's not Vizcaino, Minor, Teheran and Delgado and perhaps we can start there.
I'd add Freeman to that list.

[KB 34]

I don't think the Brewers will be overly anxious to trade Hart considering they're going to lose Prince Fielder after the season and will want to show they're serious about winning to the casual fan who understands losing Fielder, but will get the wrong message from removing a large contract from the team. Brewers management tends to be consistent about not tanking for the future completely but putting on a show like they're one piece away being a contender. This doesn't work very well from a baseball sense but it serves the franchise pretty well.

Furthermore, even if the Brewers decided to trade Hart with arbitration option/s remaning why would they trade him for prospects where if the prospects turn out they'll be basically what the Brewers traded? I think a lot of prospects are being overvalued on these forums, and the prospects no one wants to trade are going to be the ones teams want.

That creates a situation where the Braves are faced with the difficult choice of really going for wins now or holding back and waiting for the prospects to develop. So far Wren has held onto prospects he really likes and sacrificed the current for the future.

There have been some dividends since Hanson and Heyward have developed a lot. I would have reluctantly traded Hanson for Peavy and I know I'm not the only one. Wren was right and I was wrong not to try and not to go almost all out with Hanson as part of the package. I doubt Wren makes a deal for similar reasons, he knows he has some really good prospects and is gambling he can set up another dynasty with them.

[alaskabravesfan]

I doubt Wren makes a deal for similar reasons, he knows he has some really good prospects and is gambling he can set up another dynasty with them.

I think that using the words "another dynasty" when describing the future Braves is not entirely out of the question. We are very close. Being pitching heavy, I understand trading some very good pitchers. (Or some under-performing MLB pitchers) but NOT for rentals.

I hope Frank Wren is much wiser about this than JS was...

[bravos4evr]

the Blue Jays KNOW that with the Yanks the Sox and the Rays ahead of them they have no shot in hell at the playoffs, they also KNOW that Bautista is likely to never repeat this years production again, so they are going to want to extract ANY value they can from him before he regresses back to ptbnl status.... my 2 cents

[piratelooksat40]

Back on the subject of Willingham, I think his presence in the clubhouse would be as strong as his presence in the lineup. He is a class act and has been since he was a kid.
He is a family man and also loves his home in Florence, AL. I think due to the close proximity to his home he would accept less money to stay in Atlanta if accuired. Not saying he will come cheap, but if the Braves offer him fair market value he would probably take it and stay in Atlanta as long as they would have him.

[quick]

As far as planning past this year, I am not so sure that should be our first priority.

This is Bobby's last year; maybe Chipper's, too. A Series' win sure would be sweet....

If we get HeyWood back and healthy after the break, and we stay generally healthy now that Jurggens is back, we have a real shot. We have good starters; a good pen; a fine infield; the outfield is the issue, as much because of injury as anything, but aside from Heywood, no one was really happy about the outfield from the time the team broke camp. And Glaus is now having a career year.

The Phils are struggling, and Rollins is out, and now Utley is, too, for 8 weeks. The Mets are going to go for Cliff Lee by all accounts, but we can still match up pretty well with them, even so. And they have some missing parts, too. This points to making hay this year as far as our division goes.

This post-9 game slump team can likely play with any team in the NL. All other teams in the NL have holes, too. We played Tampa and Minnesota tough, too, and they are among the best in the AL. This Braves' team has confidence and chemistry.

We may need one more tool in the toolbox, though....

[Freddy_Ballgame]

One thing I think will provide a key to the rest of the season may be watching how well the team does while Heyward is out. If they continue winning without missing much of a beat, you have to love their chances! Obtaining a legit leftfielder for the stretch run and beyond would be a worthy investment. Who may be available at a level above Willingham and those others? It may well be time to invest in the future. If they get a legit masher for left, a defensive player at third, should Chipper retire, would be much easier to tolerate. Opinions?

[Andy G.]

As for the 3B for when Chipper retires...I think that'll have to wait until the off-season for when the announcement is officially made. And yes...I am making the assumption for that. And yes...I have already thought of the potential replacements and have found a somewhat complicated trade in which we'd fill the spot. :p lol
Can we hear it? It's not exactly what this thread is about, but who cares? I'm very interested in hearing this trade idea.

[bravos4evr]

Well BFH...... I think that looks,well, terrible! Teahen.... the only reason I wanted ti trade for him prior was because it entailed ditching Frenchy in a swap with the Royals. I like him as a bench bat, not much else.

To be honest, I don't see why we would go to all that trouble to move Lowe, give up cash , and not get something back a little more exciting than Linebrink and Teahen.... It just doesn't work for me.(not to mention I believe that Zambrano is going at the deadline to somebody for a ptbnl type or another bad contract. I could even see the Cubs releasing him !)

Why not wait til the offseason, move Lowe for whatever we can get, then use the leftover dollars from Chipper to take a shot at a free agent? Maybe Aramis Ramiriez's bad season will lower his contract expectations? Maybe we can get him on a one year deal ,hoping he can pull a Glaus and increase his value for 2011?

I don't like deals where we pay money and also take on salaries over say $3mill or so....

[bravos4evr]

I don't think there is going to be a trade worth doing on Lowe.... I don't want to eat a ton of his money, and whatever we get in return isn't worth the hassle of then having to get another starter..... IMO we are stuck with him. True he is a vastly overpaid 5th starter, however, when you consider the entire cost of our rotation....it's reasonable.

Once again, this is mostly all offseason stuff, and there is so much of the season left....prolly moo! :-) Tons of time for improvements in performances, injuries...etc

Hmmm, nobody thinks the Cubs will find a home for Zambrano during the season! I wouldn't be surprised if Ozzie is trying to get KW to go after him right now!(especially since they could prolly get him for a prospect and the Cubs would eat $10-$12 mill of his total contract just to be rid of him!)

[bravos4evr]

lets us compare here:

rotation 1
Hudson
Hanson
Jurjjens (how the hell do ya spell it again?)
Medlen
Lowe

cost: $25 millionish (I'm guessing on what the 3 younguns will make next season)

pros: experienced, reasonably priced (when looking at the total cost), effective

cons: money wrapped up mostly in Lowe and $7 mill in Kawakami which is wayyy to much for a middle relieve,

Rotation 2
Hudson
Hanson
Jurrjens (think I got it finally!)
Medlen
Kawakami

cost:$18 million (actually $22million after $4mill is kicked in to cover Lowe in a trade)

pros: even cheaper leaves $3 mill to improve the pen, still effective, top 5 rotation in NL top to bottom maybe even top 2 or 3

cons: Kawakami taxes the pen more than Lowe , now he leaves extra $$$ to get another pen arm.... but I still think we are weaker in the rotation just to save $4mill

The benefits are ,as you said, we can pick up some bench strength and pen strength by trading him. The negatives are we make our rotation weaker and lose that rotation depth we had in case of injury....(which the price of that can't be measured IMO).

IF, we did move Lowe (and eat like $9-$10 mill remaining on his deal, for this argument lets say $5 mill a season) let us look at what kinda scratch we are looking at to have this offseason!

Chipper retires- $13 mill
Lowe Traded- net $2-$3mill maybe could just say a wash
Glaus leaves-$2.5 (assuming he hits most of his incentives)
wagner reitres-$6 mill
Saito leaves-$4mill
Ross leaves-$2.5 mill
Hinske-$1.5 mill

that adds up to :$31.5 million bucks
subtract$6.5 mill for raises,arby...etc

$25 million

what do we need?

3b , closer , backup catcher , lh bench bat , pen arm,setup man , 1b .

well, the bench bat and pen man/setup man maybe are taken care of by BFH's Lowe trade... leaving us with $25 mill to buy a 3b , 1b a closer and maybe another pen arm....

my suggestions!!

3b
Aramis Ramirez- May be available for around $6-9 mill , not had the best health but his career numbers are consistently pretty dang good, he may be available to try and put it together for a big contract in 2011.

1b- Freeman- young cheap, but we need to make sure we have a solid backup plan if he ain't ready , I wouldn't mind offering Hinske some more bread to stay an extra season to be honest!

closer- who the heck knows..... I hate feee agent closers on long term deals, to Jeckyll and Hydeish for me.... to be honest, I'd like to see us lock the division up in early September and let Kimbrel take a few shots at closing games....


If we keep Lowe, we roughly have $22mill or so and have to get 3b and a closer and the bench..... not too shabby either way really... it's just how you wanna go about it...

Personally, I would trade Kawakami. If a Japanese player doesn't wanna come because we traded him after two mediocre seasons well.... they can bite me.

[-Dr. Brave-]

The Braves may have finally solved their lack of right-handed offense from an outfielder by signing Willy Taveras (http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=l_trn&lid=117&sid=l117) to a minor league contract.

:laugh:

Bobby Cox lauded the signing: "Willy has always been a guy who can catch the ball and steal a bag or two. He's still only 28, so he may still have a drop or two in the tank. We especially liked the fact that he can still breathe and bat right-handed. The challenge will be to get him to do both at the same time."

:thumbsup:

[Freddy_Ballgame]

My point may have been missed. While I appreciate Willingham's offensive talents, I also consider him somewhat fragile. Maybe it's just a misperception. My thinking is that if the Braves were to go after a big bat for left, think of him being the general replacement for Chipper's former production and the spot where Chipper's old contract monies would go instead of trying to use them on a thirdbaseman. Then use guys like Conrad, Infante, or any other decent warm body at third while developing the kid they signed this Spring who seems to be outgrowing SS. (I forgot his name!) Generally, a slugging outfielder is easier to find and hire than a slugging thirdbaseman.
Hope this makes my thoughts a bit clearer...

[quick]

I'll agree that we do need to improve. This team is something special and if some felt they're already making noise...imagine the ruckus we'd make with the right acquisition.

However, the quote above...perhaps taken out of context as you didn't really address it...reeks of a "do what we must to win one now" type of thinking. I completely disagree with that.

Planning past this year should be one of our primary focuses at the trade deadline. If we acquire rentals...they'll be gone in 2011 just like Bobby and, more importantly from a player personnel standpoint, Chipper.

Bolster the team for a run this season with a player we can retain for 2011 and it puts us in great position to win in both years. Don't just acquire someone for the sake of acquiring them to win one for the skipper this year without regard to what type of holes it creates in 2011 and beyond.

We have three ways to go: plan for the future; plan for this year; plan for both. Option 3 is best, if possible. But, I would be willing to sacrifice the future to win this year, if option 3 isn't realistic for a club whose payroll is middling. You can certainly make your own choice.

Let me put it this way: While the Marlin organization has its problems, for sure, they have won 2 Series to our one in the last 19 years. I'd rather have 2 rings than 14 divisions. The risk with mortgaging the future is you can do so and still not get the ring--you'd better get the right players, and you'd better have some good baseball luck.

[Wahoo]

Absolutely agree on the first set of statements about 3 courses of action to take.

On the latter, the part I put in bold, I don't see any players worth that type of risk this season. We've gone all in before...it blew up in our face and threatened to set us back 10 years. Luckily, it didn't. This team has an extremely bright future...and if we're going to go all in, it needs to be as close to a sure thing type of player as there can be. I personally don't see that type of player available right now. Perhaps that will change in several weeks, but my opinion that our best bet is to acquire a bat we can retain for 2011 probably won't.


In fairness, this team is probably the best team we have fielded since our last world series group. I think it's better than the last handful of division winners, which I think differentiates this group a bit. Having said that your point is a salient one that has more than it's fair share of merits, and I believe I do side with you.