2010 MLB Discussion

[sdp]

Albert Pujols just went deep in his first at-bat of the season. Surprise.

[Dreamscape]

Former Brave Anthony Lerew was desiginated for assignment, by the way. Some may remember Lerew arriving in Atlanta with a solid effort in his first start in 2007, but that was about it. He went to the Royals system last year and didn't do much here, either. Lerew was ranked twice in the Baseball America Top 100, but looks to settle into a journeyman role now.

[GeneGarberForPrez]

Just in case you were wondering why Chan Ho Park struggled so much in his first appearance of the 2010 season, here he is to explain it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GIEHPGj9sI&feature=player_embedded

[Dreamscape]

Kelly Johnson is off to a great start in the hitting-rich atmosphere of Phoenix.

9-25, 7 RS, 3 2B, 3 HR, 5 RBI, 5 BB, 2 K

[Gman]

Kelly Johnson is off to a great start in the hitting-rich atmosphere of Phoenix.

9-25, 7 RS, 3 2B, 3 HR, 5 RBI, 5 BB, 2 K

That pales in comparison to Francoeur who is playing in the pitching rich atmosphere of the Mets new stadium.

12-28, 6RS, 3 2b, 1 3b, 3 HR, 7 RBI, 6 BB, 3 K

Pendleton's failures just continue to mount. McClouth can now be moved into the vast pile of hitters who were better before Pendleton got his hands on them. They gonna wait til Heyward flames out and goes to another team to become Pujols II before they $hitcan TP? Ludicrous.:banghead:

[JanShan12]

I've been watching the Mets-Cardinals game from the beginning... took a break to run... came back an hour later and it's still on... over 6 hours now and they're tied 1-1 in the 20th inning!!! Wow!

[jlcct]

The Mets won the game in the 20th 2-1 unfortunately. It looked like the Cards should have won in the 19th on a close play at second which would have plated another run but the lowly Mets took it the following inning. Plus the Mets suck. :eek:

[The Rap]

What's amazing to me is that I have Pujols on my CDM baseball teams so I was fearful when I heard that the game went 20 innings. Dude went 2-5 so his legendary greatness just continues to grow and grow.

[jlcct]

I bet LaRussa was pretty happy to have Wainright pitch a complete game the day after a 20 inning affair.

[Agent-X-]

That pales in comparison to Francoeur who is playing in the pitching rich atmosphere of the Mets new stadium.

12-28, 6RS, 3 2b, 1 3b, 3 HR, 7 RBI, 6 BB, 3 K

Pendleton's failures just continue to mount. McClouth can now be moved into the vast pile of hitters who were better before Pendleton got his hands on them. They gonna wait til Heyward flames out and goes to another team to become Pujols II before they $hitcan TP? Ludicrous.:banghead:

I have to say that's pretty damning if Franny keeps it up. I'd hate to have someone we gave away outperform Heyward this year.

No, I'm pretty sure most of Fran's problems were his own, so I'm perplexed as to how he could be drawing walks like that.

[Dreamscape]

Really wouldn't worry about the walks. Francoeur is actually seeing slightly less pitches per AB than his career average so by weird magic, he has all these walks. He's still swinging at a lot of first pitches, his actually swinging at more pitches that aren't strikes than his career average, still a problematic hitter. The only strange things I see is he's hitting the ball on the ground a lot more and making more contact. So far, he hasn't sacrificed power, but I believe that will come if he keeps the K's down and the contact up.

If that continues, he will have done the thing I once said he would have to do to be successful since he would never be better than below-average at getting on base via non-hit ways.

[Andy G.]

What's amazing to me is that I have Pujols on my CDM baseball teams so I was fearful when I heard that the game went 20 innings. Dude went 2-5 so his legendary greatness just continues to grow and grow.
Yeah, he was walked four times in that game. Twice intentionally. I started watching the game in the 18th, I think. When I saw his stat line I just started laughing.

[Dreamscape]

Insane poll at Big League Stew asking if Manny Ramirez has your vote for the Hall of Fame.

I just can't see how it's not a slamdunk. But then, I'm amazed Roberto Alomar isn't putting the final touches on his speech.

[Andy G.]

Insane poll at Big League Stew asking if Manny Ramirez has your vote for the Hall of Fame.

I just can't see how it's not a slamdunk. But then, I'm amazed Roberto Alomar isn't putting the final touches on his speech.
You don't have any reservations about putting a guy who actually tested positive for steroids (well, a drug that he would only take because he was coming off of a steroid cycle) in the Hall of Fame?

[Dreamscape]

You don't have any reservations about putting a guy who actually tested positive for steroids (well, a drug that he would only take because he was coming off of a steroid cycle) in the Hall of Fame?
I would if he was borderline. Palmeiro, for instance. Even McGwire, who was one dimensional and a roid freak. But Manny Ramirez, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens...they are easy choices.

[bravos4evr]

Clemens may be in trouble because of his adamant denials..... Bonds will get in as will A-Rod and Manny..... I bet none of them first ballot tho.

[Andy G.]

I'd keep them all out. Bonds has a mountain of evidence against him. I mean, there's absolutely no doubt that he used steroids and put up numbers he never would have come close to because of them. Bonds was the largest insult to baseball that I've ever seen. Clemens is the same way. His career shouldn't have lasted nearly as long as it did. He was one of the most dominating players in the game at a point in his career where it's clear that steroids were enabling him to stay at that level of production. Ramirez, I'm assuming he took them for his entire career. Nobody, not even Manny, is dumb enough to begin taking steroids in 2009 when they're already one of the best hitters of all time. Keep them all out.

I know the argument against that is that's impossible to know exactly who did and who didn't, but I don't care. The ones that I know disgraced the game do not belong in the Hall of Fame.

[Dreamscape]

I just can't ignore their greatness and the fact that you simply can't prove their numbers were a completely based on steroids. When did Barry Bonds start using? When did Manny Ramirez? Roger Clemens? You can't answer that. It's not like McGwire who suddenly became healthy and his neck grew 25 inches.

And since it's incredibly likely that people who avoided the steroid talk, but did use, will get in, I don't see how we can leave out the ones who were some of the most amazing players in the game regardless of what they may have took simply because we actually do know. I think I've come to accept what baseball was during the roid era. There are some players who completely owe their career to the drugs...but there are still others that were some of the best ever.

[Andy G.]

I don't need the answers to those questions, though. I have a pretty good idea of when Bonds started using, and I know that Bonds was one of the most obvious users out there, and he took down the most prestigious award that we have because of steroid use. I know Bonds was a great player without steroids, but he made a mockery of the record books, and baseball (especially the Hall of Fame) is all about the record books.

I'm not just spouting off as a wannabe purist. I honestly find it embarrassing to see these guys rank where they do on the all time lists. They might be on the list without steroids, and then again they might not. Either way, they definitely wouldn't be as high up on the list as they are now without those drugs.

[Wahoo]

I'm with Gilley on this one. Especially Manny and Bonds. Both are complete d-bags.

They are both obvious cheats, though the problem with Bonds is I am pretty sure he started the obvious cheating, he was already a HOFer. And Clemens...well f*ck him. IMO, his numbers wouldn't have looked nearly as good without those 6-7 steroid aided years, and unlike most, I think there is enough circumstantial evidence to keep Clemens and Bonds out. I'm a little more inclined to allow a guy in, if he doesn't lie about it.

[The Rap]

I would be royally po'd if Bonds and Clemens got in. Bonds started using because he was jealous of the attention given to McGwire and Sosa two blatant cheaters. Bonds would have made the Hall without doing any steroids but the schmuck lacks character. Clemens is just an arrogant POS. Interesting because I met him at Logan Airport and walked away with the same impression.

[jlcct]

I'm with Wahoo and Gilley. I can't accept them after the cheating and lying. If they took the honest route then maybe I could forgive but not forget, but they did lie. I have no respect for that and I hope MLB doesn't support it either.

[Hobbes]

I'm with Wahoo and Gilley. I can't accept them after the cheating and lying. If they took the honest route then maybe I could forgive but not forget, but they did lie. I have no respect for that and I hope MLB doesn't support it either.
Unfortunately, MLB has very little to do with the Hall of Fame. It's all up to the writers. I think Clemens gets in, but has to wait at least a couple of ballots before they give in. I think it is quite possible that Bonds will be the first "known" cheater to get in on his first ballot.

[Andy G.]

I wouldn't care if they didn't lie about it. The fact that Barry Bonds has more homeruns than Hank Aaron is absolutely outrageous, and as I said before, embarrassing. The Hall of Fame should act as if 755 was still the record, because there is absolutely no way it wouldn't be if Bonds hadn't become a steroid freak.

It's not just that record, either. Their statistics are laughable, and that's what the Hall is all about, statistics. Baseball writers are idiots. They're fools, with no life, no brains, and no talent. That's why Barry Bonds will get in the Hall of Fame. If the HOF wants to keep any of it's credibility, because it's lost a lot of it already, none of those guys will get in.

[Dreamscape]

At the same time, if they want to keep their credibility, they have to vote them in. It's one thing to keep McGwire out because his entire career was built on a snapshot of his career in which he simply kept hitting homers. Bonds and Clemens had long careers full of production through different eras. You can hate them and you're welcome to. But I can't see keeping them out of the Hall. It can't hurt the integrity of the Hall anymore than the recent increase in medicore players getting in.

[Agent-X-]

At the same time, if they want to keep their credibility, they have to vote them in. It's one thing to keep McGwire out because his entire career was built on a snapshot of his career in which he simply kept hitting homers. Bonds and Clemens had long careers full of production through different eras. You can hate them and you're welcome to. But I can't see keeping them out of the Hall. It can't hurt the integrity of the Hall anymore than the recent increase in medicore players getting in.

I beg to differ on the credibility issue. If someone is a known cheater AND a liar, then that should be given consideration. It has to be talked about. It needs to be dealt with, even collectively amongst the writers. I don't believe the Hall has room for guys who cheat and lie about it on the scale that these dues did. This is more than altering a baseball or doing something outlandish once. I kind of think this has the potential to wreck a guy's career. AND when you look at the impact it has on the entire game, it's not hard to imagine how damaging this has been for baseball's reputation. Players who never would have considered steroids an option, as a result, even felt compelled to use PED's just to stay competitive, even if it meant just remaining a marginal major leaguer. Why? Because baseball's very best stars were doing it with great success, and that kind of tainted success has a major trickle down effect.

So do you then take the guys who are chiefly responsible for this tainted image and elevate them to legendary status by placing them in the Hall? I think baseball has a rare opportunity to clean its slate by closing the doors on these guys. It's because they were legendary prior to known steroid use that it has the potential to set things right for the game.

As for guys who haven't been found out yet, baseball could adopt a policy of ousting guys from the Hall if the story ever gets out that a cheater is in the hall. That ought to be humiliating...

PS. I do think lying about it makes it more than twice as bad... that needs consideration, too.

[Andy G.]

I don't mean to just keep repeating myself over and over, but I just don't understand why we should have to be so PC about this.

Barry Bonds is a fcktard. Roger Clemens is a fcktard. Manny Ramirez, Alex Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire....they're all fcktards. They're all, statistically, among the greatest players of all time. Manny Ramirez is actually called "the greatest right handed hitter of all time" every now and then. Alex Rodriguez might pass Bonds on the homerun list, making Hank Aaron THIRD on the list of most homeruns of all time. THIRD!!

This. Is. Pathetic. For a hundred years, baseball has been about records. Since The Great Bambino was sending balls over the fence at a rate that was nearly inconceivable for his time, baseball has cherished the record books. It wasn't easy to break a record. You didn't have players passing All Time Greats in the record books every other week. The 500 Homerun Club, of which more than 40% of the players are KNOWN steroid users, was not something that anybody took lightly.

Now, because of these fcktards and their blatant disrespect for EVERYONE that wants to enjoy and respect this game the way it has been respected for the past century, the record books are a joke. They're almost meaningless. Pick a category, there are steroid users all over the top of the list, and they didn't get there because of talent and hard work. They got there because.....they're fcktards.

I don't care about, "What if we mess up and let somebody in, only to find out later that they used?". Are we seriously supposed to make decisions out of FAIRNESS TO THOSE FCKTARDS?!?! Who gives a flying fck about them?!?! The only thing they should be remembered for is....for being fcktards. If someone gets in, and later we find out that they were a fcktard as well....then we missed one. Or, you can do Don's idea, and get them the heck out of there. All I know is that we need to keep these these guys away from the Hall of Fame the best we can. If you put them in, the Hall of Fame is the equivalent of the ESPN Zone. Oh my, what a great honor it is be among that company.

[bravos4evr]

Andy is my new hero...............


Seriously, he's right, I say keep all of them out. But the writers won't do that because they want to be able to keep getting insider info from front office people and not piss of players..... It's just political horse$hit

[wordslayer©]

It's going to happen....Bonds....A-Rod....McGwire....everyone who used steroids will be in the hall at some point.

The thing is....I really think there will be a strong attempt to keep them out at first, but at some point...one of them will get in. It may be that someone gets in and THEN everyone finds out that he used steroids, but one of them will get in, and when one gets in, they all will get in. That's just how things work.

The legendary Bill James wrote an article one time where he described the situation something like this, and I'll try to describe it in my own words:

People all want to live longer, not just athletes...everyone. Not today, but in 30 years from now, 50 years from now, steroids, or their ancestor drugs, will be more and more used by the regular population. They will become safer and more effective. They will have positive effects on people. They will be seen as today's vitamins, but only better.

The drugs will be seen as good. And once acceptance comes, people will look back to the athletes of the steroid era and not see them as crooked, but will see them as pioneers. They won't be able to understand all the hatred we had for today's athletes over what they did. They will think that the *banning* of steroids was archaic and stupid.

Now, I full well understand Gilley's post, and I have felt like that same angst myself.

History is forgiving. Once the people who live in our day are gone, the anger becomes less. The hurt becomes more distant.

I have no doubt that Pete Rose and Joe Jackson will someday be in the Hall of Fame. People are just forgiving.

Players who played with the steroid players will get into the HOF. Once players like Chipper or someone is in, he may make comments that Mark McGwire was a helluva player. He may start lobbying on his behalf. The players who get in will lobby for the steroid people who didn't, JUST AS players who played with Pete Rose lobby for his induction. This is a fraternity and I am sure that the players who used steroids are MUCH higher than what we even realize...maybe in the 70% range, and they will forgive their brethren.

Jamie Moyer used a doctored ball last night. He was cheating. I don't KNOW it, but I feel pretty sure that he did. If 70% of the pitchers used doctored balls and the league didn't enforce the rules on it, because it drew fans, would this be cheating? It's easy when one player is cheating to enforce the rules, but when most everyone is doing it, then it's another matter, because it then becomes impossible to enforce.

I feel for the players of the day such as Mike Greenwell, who lost the MVP to Canseco, and players like him. They did play the game according to the rules of the day, but they paid the price for their honesty. It's not right, but this is how it is.

[Dreamscape]

Former Braves first rounder Luis Atilano will get the start in the second game of Washington's double header today. Atilano was one of two first rounders the year the Braves selected Saltalamacchia. While injured, he was traded for Daryle Ward that year the Braves simply wanted a pinch hitter. Atilano is a longshot, but was pitching well in AAA this year.

[The Rap]

Gilley, thx for writing one of the best posts I have ever seen here. I just wonder what a fcktard is? LOL

[HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN]

5/125(possibly 138 Mill) for Howard? Are The Phillies Crazy?

[Dreamscape]

5/125(possibly 138 Mill) for Howard? Are The Phillies Crazy?
Well, the Phillies painted themselves in that corner. They are already paying him $19M this year and can't let him go at this time of their organization's greatest success. Still insane to have $58M invested to four players (Polanco's $1M contribution to that total is his buyout if his mutual option isn't picked up) in 2013. How this impacts Jayson Werth and Jimmy Rollins should be interesting to watch. Werth is a free agent, Rollins is signed through 2011 at $8.5M. The team is already a shade over $3M away from this year's team salary on 15 players. In addition to Werth, Jamie Moyer (gone), J.C. Romero ($4.5M club option), Chad Durbin, Jose Contreras, and Juan Castro ($750,000 club option) are potential free agents while Greg Dobbs (third year) and four other first-year players are hitting arbitration. Can the Phillies really afford to raise their $138M payroll much more?

The more fascinating result of this is what this does to the Cardinals' efforts to resign Pujols, a superior player. He could see his $16M salary doubled. At 30 years-old, Pujols would probably command five-to-seven years. Rough estimate...5 years, $160M.

[-Dr. Brave-]

The more fascinating result of this is what this does to the Cardinals' efforts to resign Pujols, a superior player. He could see his $16M salary doubled. At 30 years-old, Pujols would probably command five-to-seven years. Rough estimate...5 years, $160M.

I think what we'll see is Pujols being traded to the Phillies and signed to a 26-year extension worth $1 billion, with a team option for 2037 worth $50 million ($49 million buyout).

[HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN]

I figure Pujols will give STL a small discount...I'm guessing 28 Mill per over at least 6 years locked in... Maybe a couple options that could make it worth 240 over 8 years...

[Hobbes]

And St. Louis will pay whatever it takes. They want Pujols to be a career Cardinal. He'll go down as one of the best players ever, and they'll want him always viewed as a Cardinal.

Still, this Howard contract will mean that Pujols gets even more. The Phillies have taken another large step down that slippery slope of escalating player salaries. This marks the first year when I have decided to not attend any games due to ever-increasing ticket prices. Eventually a lot of fans will be doing something similar. I do believe that there eventually will come a tipping point where teams can't generate any additional revenue from the fans to pay for their largesse to the players.

[Lauren T.]

Luckily, the Braves haven't had to increase ticket prices in the last few years. That's the only way I can afford to go as often as I do -- friends have tickets, corporate seats, 2-for-1 tickets, buy skyline $1 seats and sneak down because you've made friends with the ushers. ;) I don't spend very much on tickets but I do go pretty often.

[The Rap]

Hon, you are right when you say "luckily" because most of the people here would give anything to have what you have with the Braves.

[Hobbes]

When I priced out a game this year vs. the Mets at Citi Field it was going to cost $170 for two seats in the upper deck behind home plate. That was for just the tickets.

I decided it wasn't worth it.

[Lauren T.]

When I priced out a game this year vs. the Mets at Citi Field it was going to cost $170 for two seats in the upper deck behind home plate. That was for just the tickets.

I decided it wasn't worth it.
That's insane. At Turner Field, upper deck, behind home plate seats are $12 for weekday games and $16 for weekend and "premium" games (like Yankees / Red Sox). They're not bad seats, either.

I know that sounds incredibly cheap to people in the Northeast, but generally speaking, things are less expensive down here. Cost of living is less, and we make a whole lot less money. A friend in Harlem is sharing an apartment with 3 other guys, and his share there is 35% more than what my whole apartment's rent is every month.

I'm not complaining. I can barely make ends meet on my salary, but at least I'm not in 30k of credit card debt like a former roommate, or pregnant with kid #4 with daddy #4. My life's not so bad.

[Wahoo]

Yeah, Atlanta fans are lucky folks, and they don't even know it. I've researched tickets there and like Lauren said, there are some really reasonable prices for tix at the The Ted. I wish I lived closer.

[Chris_Moderato]

So I'm sure most of you have heard about this already, but in case you haven't, there was a 17-year old kid who ran out onto the field prior to the eighth inning last night at the game in Philadelphia. He managed to avoid security personnel and, it must be said, an obviously overweight police officer for a short time. He wasn't even running that fast. As he ran back toward right field, the aforementioned cop took the kid down with a Taser.

Now, I don't think it's a good idea to run on the field. It's obnoxious, annoying, and it's been done to death. That said, I think shooting someone with a Taser because your fat, out of shape cop a$$ can't catch up to them is pretty much an overreaction. It seems obvious to me watching the video that the kid would have been nabbed by security.

Thoughts?

LINK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqtPUhYdz6M&feature=related)

[wordslayer©]

So I'm sure most of you have heard about this already, but in case you haven't, there was a 17-year old kid who ran out onto the field prior to the eighth inning last night at the game in Philadelphia. He managed to avoid security personnel and, it must be said, an obviously overweight police officer for a short time. He wasn't even running that fast. As he ran back toward right field, the aforementioned cop took the kid down with a Taser.

Now, I don't think it's a good idea to run on the field. It's obnoxious, annoying, and it's been done to death. That said, I think shooting someone with a Taser because your fat, out of shape cop a$$ can't catch up to them is pretty much an overreaction. It seems obvious to me watching the video that the kid would have been nabbed by security.

Thoughts?

LINK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqtPUhYdz6M&feature=related)
totally agreed

but then again, I think most cops live for these types of moments. This is their one shinning moment. They'll tase a donut instead of microwaving one.

[bravos4evr]

I hope someone tazes his fat arse kid one day. If someone has the nerve to sleep with his chumly lookin behind!




yeah, I don't like cops

[Lauren T.]

I think using the Taser was an overreaction -- he should have been tackled like everyone else who runs onto the field. They all get caught eventually. Didn't I hear that the kid called his dad to ask if he could run onto the field, and the dad said he didn't think it was a good idea?

[luvdembravos]

I'm against the use of tasers unless it's a Phillies' or Mets' fan...in those cases, it seems justified.

[luvdembravos]

Dallas Braden with a perfect game just a few weeks after calling out A-Rod for being the douche that he is? I like this guy. Now if he throws at A-Rod when the teams meet again, Braden will officially be my favorite MLB player.:D

[The Rap]

I was stunned that he achieved what he did because before the season I had no idea who he was.

[GeneGarberForPrez]

Salty in a Steve Sax Situation (http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/blog/roto_arcade/post/Saltalamacchia-in-minors-to-work-on-throwing-?urn=fantasy,240938)

[Lauren T.]

Oh, that's sad.

[ScooterBrave]

Actually, it sounds like more of a Rube Baker issue.....

[ScooterBrave]

I'm against the use of tasers unless it's a Phillies' or Mets' fan...in those cases, it seems justified.

I'll take it a step farther and say that EVERY Phillies fan should be tasered.

[warefreak]

Just curious what you guys think about a few rookies who showed so much promise last year but have fallen flat on their face this year. Is it just the sophomore jinx?

Porcello, Chris Coglan, Alex Gordon, Gordon Beckham, Nolan Reimold... etc

All these guys are just flat out performing like duds.

[Dreamscape]

Sometimes, it's just luck. Porcello, for instance, is very unlucky right now with a BABIP sitting at .355, about 70 points higher than it was last year. He's only walking a few more and is giving up less homers. I still believe Porcello's final numbers will be a lot closer to last year. On the other hand, Chris Coghlan was highly lucky last year when he stole the Rookie of the Year. The lack of that this year is compounded with an increase in K's and a decrease in walks.

[Dreamscape]

Armando Galarraga threw the third perfect game this year.

Except...Jim Joyce blew it. With two outs in the ninth, no less. A blown call in the fifth is one thing, but that call was absurd. Link (http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=8616789&topic_id=8878994&c_id=det) To his credit, Joyce later sought out Galarraga in tears to apologize.

[Hobbes]

In watching the replay yesterday, the runner was so obviously out that I wonder what Joyce was thinking. One would think that with two outs in the 9th of a perfect game the ump would be leaning towards calling him out regardless, unless it was clearly obvious he was safe.

I wonder if he was so focused on not letting the game situation dictate his call that he was actually predisposed to call the runner safe.

[FrankEC]

And of course, as everybody and their brother in the sports media is asking today, does this lead to an expansion of instant replay in baseball? I would think it almost has to. There is just no excuse for a call that blatantly bad. When the entire stadium can watch the instant replay and see that the call was blown within seconds, I don't see any reason why the umps couldn't use that to reverse the call on the spot. I know a lot of people say it will slow down the game, but honestly, how long did they spend arguing about it on the field last night? A guy in a booth could have settled the argument in 10 seconds. Game over. The only area I don't think instant replay would work is on pitch calls.

[sdp]

It's such a shame. Galarraga got robbed of a perfect game and Joyce is getting sodomized by the world. Galarraga was a total class act about it, though.

I agree with you, Dreamscape--you'd think the 27th out would go to the pitcher, regardless of how close the play was, for all his work done that night and that's what shocked me the most. Maybe Joyce was caught napping and just lost mind in the moment.

I hope this doesn't give credence to a serious consideration about instant replay on any controversial play. That is not what is needed.

[luvdembravos]

I've been leaning towards supporting instant replay in MLB but after what happened to Armando Galarraga last night, I'm 100% for it now. Getting the call right is the fair thing to do. Calling balls/strikes can remain as a judgement call.

[quick]

I am sure we are all aware by now that the kid Gallaraga, Tiger's pitcher, was one out away from the 3d perfect game of this season. We are further aware that on a play at first that should have ended the game, the first base ump Joyce clearly blew the call and awarded the hitter first base. Even Joyce has manned-up and admitted as much, unequivocally.

Why cannot the commissioner's office take it upon themselves to acknowledge this fact, award the perfect game and adjust the game stats accordingly? Or, if the Tigers were to protest, why couldn't the commish then so act? Is there any precedent for this? Is there any authority for this?

I realize there are lots of blown calls in the course of a season, but this one was so bad and cost so much, why couldn't the commissioner act? Even if viewed as a predecedent, the commissioner could make it clear he is acting in the best interests of baseball and he does not plan to make a habit of it and will so act in his sole discretion.

EDIT

I just saw at the NYT that Selig is considering overturning the bad call:


http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/selig-mulling-whether-to-overturn-joyces-call/

[bravos4evr]

You can't have instant replay in baseball. Mgr's would ask for it every close play and the dang games would be 5 hrs long. There's human error in the sport, that's life.Sometimes condoms break. Deal with it missy. :-)

[Lauren T.]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-joycescall

As Babes Love Baseball said on Twitter, "There's no crying in baseball!" (Love a good movie quote when it's applicable.)

[Dreamscape]

You can't have instant replay in baseball. Mgr's would ask for it every close play and the dang games would be 5 hrs long. There's human error in the sport, that's life.Sometimes condoms break. Deal with it missy. :-)
Why couldn't we have two or so calls for each manager at the start of the game, much like the challenge flags for the NFL coaches. I don't agree with your assessment either. It's the exact same thing they said about the NFL, but naturally, not every play is reviewable and I don't see the games getting much longer. How long does it actually take to get a call right? 30 seconds to a minute?

I would give each manager two challenges per nine innings. If the game goes extras, we could give them another challenge or just put all replay on the umpires. Maybe even make it one of those "if you get two challenges right, you get a bonus third challenge." The plays that the challenges would be used would be limited to home run calls, balls on the chalk, calls at the bases, tag up plays, and diving plays where trapping the ball could be challenged. Probably not thinking of another play or two that should be up for challenge.

It really wouldn't take too much. Balls and strikes would still be on the umpires along with balk calls and whatever. The fact that this isn't being implemented widely seems to be on the MLB establishment not being willing to get with the times. It wouldn't take too long to get the calls right and embarrassments like last night would not occur.

[sdp]

The call will stand. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5248118)

I could go for two reviews per nine innings.

[FrankEC]

To add to what Dream said, replay is not going to slow the game down any more than a manager coming out and arguing with the ump for 5 minutes over a close call. In fact replay would actually speed the game up in those situations.

[bravos4evr]

yeah but the mgr coming out is an integral part of the game! The spitting and cussing and kicking dirt and trying to motivate yer team! That's baseball!!!! The human element is wayyyy to important to remove. You got screwed, it sux, drive on, quit whining....

[Dreamscape]

yeah but the mgr coming out is an integral part of the game! The spitting and cussing and kicking dirt and trying to motivate yer team! That's baseball!!!! The human element is wayyyy to important to remove. You got screwed, it sux, drive on, quit whining....
I just have to continue to disagree. Why not fix something when it's so obviously easy to fix? That just boggles my mind why, in this day in age, this is even a discussion. The technology is there, the ease in using it is there, and there is no need to keep holding back the inevitable. It's going to happen because it should happen. Accept it.

[jlcct]

I saw a scrolling update on ESPN (I hate ESPN) that said Selig will not overrule the bad call to fix what is broken. Thanks Bud. This is stupid. There is a time in life that you have to realize that certain things are more important. What argument could Bud really make that would justify what has happened. At the least he should have made a statement that he is looking into the idea of using video replay. I mean they could run tivo in a booth and give a ref and a booth guy both a two way radio. A replay would take 10 seconds. Instead we have ****ty records being logged that don't properly represent the game. Why bother having a record book if it's wrong? This bothers me a lot. On the other hand I really like how the pitcher and the Tigers handled this though. I guess that's the only positive thing to come from all of this.

[jlcct]

I just posted something about this in another thread because I didn't see this here first. Someone else had already posted there as well. Could someone move it over here? Please.

[Dreamscape]

I saw a scrolling update on ESPN (I hate ESPN) that said Selig will not overrule the bad call to fix what is broken. Thanks Bud. This is stupid. There is a time in life that you have to realize that certain things are more important. What argument could Bud really make that would justify what has happened. At the least he should have made a statement that he is looking into the idea of using video replay. I mean they could run tivo in a booth and give a ref and a booth guy both a two way radio. A replay would take 10 seconds. Instead we have ****ty records being logged that don't properly represent the game. Why bother having a record book if it's wrong? This bothers me a lot. On the other hand I really like how the pitcher and the Tigers handled this though. I guess that's the only positive thing to come from all of this.
I'm going to agree with Selig on the issue of whether or not he should overturn things. It sets an awful precedent that we can just go in the past and change what happened. While we should learn to help avoid mistakes, they will occur and that's part of baseball. The record book is full of bad calls. There will always be a human element as barvos eluded to and we shouldn't try to fix every thing that is wrong.

I don't agree with Selig a lot, but I saw no need to overturn the call to make it a perfect game. There should have been replay, but once the game is official, it's done. Can't fix things after that.

By the way, merging the two threads.

[Agent-X-]

I saw a scrolling update on ESPN (I hate ESPN) that said Selig will not overrule the bad call to fix what is broken. Thanks Bud. This is stupid. There is a time in life that you have to realize that certain things are more important. What argument could Bud really make that would justify what has happened. At the least he should have made a statement that he is looking into the idea of using video replay. I mean they could run tivo in a booth and give a ref and a booth guy both a two way radio. A replay would take 10 seconds. Instead we have ****ty records being logged that don't properly represent the game. Why bother having a record book if it's wrong? This bothers me a lot. On the other hand I really like how the pitcher and the Tigers handled this though. I guess that's the only positive thing to come from all of this.

I think the question here is how badly did the call impact the outcome of the game. Did it really impact the outcome of the game? To decide to overrule the call in this game is a slippery slope argument to potentially overrule the calls in a number of games this year where the outcome may have been greatly impacted.

Baseball is a team sport and what matters most in baseball is the outcome of each game. It's not about player statistics. Those things are important to fans but not the sport. That there are record books and a wealth of statistics has to do with what fans want, but in the grand scheme these individual statistics are meant to serve as a means to an end... teams improving their won-loss records.

The Tigers still won that game. It did not cost them the victory nor did it cost Galarraga a run. I think the bottom line here is that of all plays to overrule, overruling a base hit to restore someone's perfect game bid can be seen as a selfish thing to do when I'm sure there are plenty of teams out there who have lost games as a result of poor umpire decisions. If you're going to overrule that one call for the sake of a perfect game then be prepared to look at a number of others that were game-changing.

Besides, that was a bang-bang play that only really became magnified by the slow-motion replay that revealed how not-close it was. Baseball lore is littered with these kinds of moments that make for really fun, memorable trivia... like George Brett's infamous called-back home run over questionable pine tar on his bat. Now there was a ridiculous call................

[FrankEC]

I also agree that you can't change the play after the game is official. Think about it this way. What if the play had been the exact opposite and the runner was clearly safe, but the ref had called him out giving Gallaraga the perfect game? In that situation, you can't go back and change the change the call without replaying the last out of the game. If you're going to set the precedent of reversing an obviously bad call after the fact, you have to be willing to do it in any situation. Suddenly that option doesn't look as appealing.

The fact of the matter is that it never should have gotten that far in the first place. It should have been reversed on the spot.

[bravos4evr]

I'm a Barves fan and we got screwed in the 1991 WS that cost us that ring!!! ( twice, lonnie smith at 3rd and Gant getting thrown off of first) those calls are made correctly and we win!...... However, I don't think that in a sport as leisurely played as baseball needs more meddling into it's rulings. Umpires make calls, those calls stand. If anything they should just mandate that if another umpire see's the first made a mistake he can overrule. But please, no friggin instant replay!!!!

[jlcct]

I guess Selig did say he would "look at potentially expanding replay use in baseball" I'm all about it. As long as it's implemented correctly. I like Dreams plan. Just as long as it's not balls and strikes. Like someone stated earlier, it might actually speed the game up and that's something they've been focusing on lately. The only stats that will be affected historically will be the ejections stats. Most managers wouldn't run onto the field to argue a call for fear of looking foolish. So yeah the idea of fighting with the umps to pump up your players will go out the window which I might miss a little but I'm okay with that as long as we improve some of these game changing issues. Checks and balances.

[quick]

I also agree that you can't change the play after the game is official. Think about it this way. What if the play had been the exact opposite and the runner was clearly safe, but the ref had called him out giving Gallaraga the perfect game? In that situation, you can't go back and change the change the call without replaying the last out of the game. If you're going to set the precedent of reversing an obviously bad call after the fact, you have to be willing to do it in any situation. Suddenly that option doesn't look as appealing.

The fact of the matter is that it never should have gotten that far in the first place. It should have been reversed on the spot.


Yes, it should have been corrected in real time; but, this game was the perfect spot for a corrected call precisely because the call was clearly in error and as it was the last play of the game, there was nothing to "undo" after it. Indeed, even taking into account that Gallaraga faced one more batter, that batter made an out so the Indians could never argue that a win was taken from them and deleting a few pitches and an out from the game was hardly relevant. Taking other call error situations out of play, this was the perfect situation to correct the call, leaving other situations to be evaluated ad hoc, in the comm's discretion, if and when such a change is ever needed again.

[sdp]

Here's my idea for expanded instant replay.


Balks, balls and strikes, and questionable hit-by-pitches are not subject to replay.
Managers received two challenges per nine innings on plays at the plate, close plays at the bases, and for catch discrepancies. Boundary calls on homeruns remain and do not count towards this number.
Replay can be used more if the umpiring crew agrees by consensus that it needs to be examined.
Every ballpark has an MLB umpiring official in the press box with access to the appropriate angles to determine the proper call on all uses of replay. The umpiring crew no longer leaves the field.
A set of two lights, green and red, are placed on the outside of the press box area or in some other visible scoring position.
When a play is in question, the on-site official views the replay and activates one of the lights to indicate the play.
Process should take no more one minute.

[bravos4evr]

Then the mgr argues about the result and it takes another 5 minutes and then somebody will want some sort of penalty for challenging and losing..... blah blah blah


Baseball has existed for 129 years without G%$#DAMN INSTANT REPLAY.!!! Quit screwing with the sport I love....... Jesus it just irritates me to no end.. " But barvos, what about getting the calls right?" ya know what, i don't give a crap, I like the human error, I like that baseball isn't some precision instrument like football!!!! I like that it's a past time and not some hyper accurate interpretation of warfare like football....

He was safe. no he was out..... thats what baseball is about. Not going to the video evidence every 15 minutes....... Life isn't about getting what you want it's learning to live with what you're given.... I think some of you have a kinda spoiled rotten attitude about entitlement and getting yer way. Life ain't about that. It's about adjusting and overcoming. Baseball is a great metaphor for life! Don''t whiny it up any more!

[Dreamscape]

Then the mgr argues about the result and it takes another 5 minutes and then somebody will want some sort of penalty for challenging and losing..... blah blah blah


Baseball has existed for 129 years without G%$#DAMN INSTANT REPLAY.!!! Quit screwing with the sport I love....... Jesus it just irritates me to no end.. " But barvos, what about getting the calls right?" ya know what, i don't give a crap, I like the human error, I like that baseball isn't some precision instrument like football!!!! I like that it's a past time and not some hyper accurate interpretation of warfare like football....

He was safe. no he was out..... thats what baseball is about. Not going to the video evidence every 15 minutes....... Life isn't about getting what you want it's learning to live with what you're given.... I think some of you have a kinda spoiled rotten attitude about entitlement and getting yer way. Life ain't about that. It's about adjusting and overcoming. Baseball is a great metaphor for life! Don''t whiny it up any more!
You realize you are whining? :)

I kid, but I think when an opportunity is there to improve the game, you have to take it. And in my opinion, this is just a slamdunk decision. I know people want to avoid any changes to the sport, but it borders on insanity to not want to get the call right on the field. Human error will continue, but there is simply too much to gain with getting calls right. It's not even that big of an alteration to the game. It's just the smart thing to do, I feel.

[luvdembravos]

You realize you are whining? :)

I kid, but I think when an opportunity is there to improve the game, you have to take it. And in my opinion, this is just a slamdunk decision. I know people want to avoid any changes to the sport, but it borders on insanity to not want to get the call right on the field. Human error will continue, but there is simply too much to gain with getting calls right. It's not even that big of an alteration to the game. It's just the smart thing to do, I feel.

I agree 100%. Use today's technology to get the call right. It works in the NFL and no one complains.

I like tradition and all that stuff but it doesn't mean I ride a horse to work.

[luvdembravos]

Anybody watch Strasburg tonight? He's the real deal and his breaking ball is phenomenal.

[Lauren T.]

I watched the whole game and was holding my breath that Capps wouldn't blow the save for him. ;) That kid was living up to his hype, for real. I tweeted that his 91st pitch was still ringing in at 99mph -- that's just insane.

[FrankEC]

I didn't plan on watching because I didn't believe the hype, but one of my friends sent me a message and told me I needed to tune in because he was putting on a show. I only caught his last couple of innings, but I can not believe the movement on his pitches. I had only seen highlights of him on ESPN up until last night. I am no longer skeptical. I'm not ready to put him in the hall of fame quite yet, but I was more than impressed. I thought his changeup was actually his most impressive pitch. The contrast between that and his fastball is ridiculous.

[luvdembravos]

Strasburg's change up, breaking ball and fastball were all good. I was impressed with the fact that he pounded the strike zone all night with all of his pitches. Of course, he was playing the Pirates, a AAAA-ish team, but one has to give the kid a lot of credit for exceeding the hype and performing under pressure. He's got great make-up and the Nats finally have something they never had - an ace.

[sdp]

I've got a better fastball than Strasburg. All the scouts missed me.

That curveball of his is just not fair. I've never seen anything like that.

[Dreamscape]

Great article (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/For-you-Dad-McDonald-homers-in-first-AB-since-?urn=mlb,250071) on Toronto's utility man, John McDonald. He lost his father last week and buried him two days before Father's Day. Then, yesterday, he blasted a two-run homer in his first at-bat since returning to the Jays. Article includes a link to the Blue Jays' streaming video of the at-bat.

[wordslayer©]

Great article (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/For-you-Dad-McDonald-homers-in-first-AB-since-?urn=mlb,250071) on Toronto's utility man, John McDonald. He lost his father last week and buried him two days before Father's Day. Then, yesterday, he blasted a two-run homer in his first at-bat since returning to the Jays. Article includes a link to the Blue Jays' streaming video of the at-bat.

Great story. But I can't lie to you, as I was watching the postgame interview, the joy just left my body when he said..........

"If I can just lose two uncles, a cousin and an aunt, I should be able to renegotiate my contract for the next year."

[luvdembravos]

Andruw hit HR #400 today. Congrats.

[Lauren T.]

Chan Ho Park was sick (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GIEHPGj9sI). Love honesty.

[Chris_Moderato]

Apparently the Phillies are trying to work out a deal for Roy Oswalt, although whether or not they are willing to guarantee his option for the 2012 season appears to be holding up the deal.

Wouldn't that just suck? Stupid Phillies. Where the hell did they get all this money from, anyway?

[Agent-X-]

They've got to do something fast. Every day that goes by puts them further and further out of the race.

Rather than keep up with the Braves, I think they should reconsider whether they are honestly in any race to begin with. It's unfamiliar territory for them, but they are crashing towards a .500 record and could be 10 games back by the deadline.

[luvdembravos]

Mets are shopping Frenchy.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/features/rumors?date=20100722&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fmlb%2ffeatures%2frumors %3fdate%3d20100722

[bravos4evr]

I bet they are!! My guess is the most he brings is a right handed light throwing relief arm

[KB 34]

Heheheheheheheh. hahahahahahahahaaha. I really hope the Mets trade Francouer to the Phillies. The Braves have a 7 game lead on the Phillies but I'd love to see it at 15 before September rolls around. Francoeur has a .295 OBP and 8 HR so far this season. If teams have half a brain he will need luck to get a million next season. It's a shame he was a complete and utter bust playing for the Braves but at least this season he's contributed a lot to the Braves success.

[Dreamscape]

I bet they are!! My guess is the most he brings is a right handed light throwing relief arm
Or a concussion-prone outfielder.

[Chris_Moderato]

Alex "Chasing History" Rodriguez's ESPN-supported hard-charge toward 600 home runs...another steroid-fueled farce that farts in the face of Major League Baseball.

Personally, I'm still in the camp that prays for Albert Pujols to legitimately top Bonds and A-Rod in the career home runs catergory.

[bravos4evr]

Mariners have a bit of a team brawl: http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=10210449


In defense of Figgins, I don't think he saw that ball at all coming in, granted he has played pretty bad this year and the team has been a huge disappointment , but I don't think he dogged it.

[Lauren T.]

New Elias rankings are out. (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/08/elias-rankings-update.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter) McCann is the top NL Catcher :thumbsup: and somehow Peter Moylan is ranked above Jonny Venters. :no:

[Wahoo]

Alex "Chasing History" Rodriguez's ESPN-supported hard-charge toward 600 home runs...another steroid-fueled farce that farts in the face of Major League Baseball.

Personally, I'm still in the camp that prays for Albert Pujols to legitimately top Bonds and A-Rod in the career home runs catergory.


It's ridiculous that ESPN continues to shove that crap in our faces. No one gives a bleep about a A-rod.

Side note: I'm in the camp of I think Pujols is just as much of a juicer as anyone else. In fact, after reading more about A-rod, and how he slipped under the radar, I am highly suspicious of Pujols. I say this based only on a hunch, but considering he's from the Dominican and that place his a haven for illicit use of performance enhancers, they still can't test for HGH, and I assume he (like A-Rod) has been using from the beginning, but he did so not so much for bulk, but to maintain strength, endurance, and recovery, so as to be less obvious about his usage.

[luvdembravos]

It's ridiculous that ESPN continues to shove that crap in our faces. No one gives a bleep about a A-rod.



Especially when the Braves are batting. Damn ESPN.

[Dreamscape]

Wait, A-Rod is coming close to 600 HR?

[The Rap]

I don't think Pujols is a juicer but who knows? Here's a name that is alsmost ready to play again; Carlos Delgado The Mets won't take him back because they are going with their kid, Ike Davis, so Carlos is a pure FA. Thoughts?

[-Dr. Brave-]

I'd rather have Freeman.

[The Rap]

So would I but will the Braves rush him?

[Dreamscape]

Project GAnderson has beens designated for assignment.

Yeah, I was surprised he still had a job, too.

[007]

Project GAnderson has beens designated for assignment.

Yeah, I was surprised he still had a job, too.


Morrow loses his no-no today as Longoria get a single with 2 down in the 9th to break it up.

[The Rap]

Morrow has always had that great arm so this might be the breakthrough. Delgado was signed by the Red Sox to a minor league deal. I really believe we have to do something already. Glaus has been garbage since his good streak. I would call up Freeman already and let him play.

[luvdembravos]

I don't like the Cardinals at all but they sure showed Cincy who was boss.

[luvdembravos]

Remember a few years ago when we had a starting rotation consisting of dreadful pitchers like Reyes, Davies and Morton?

Update: Charlie Morton just might be the worst starting pitcher in MLB this year. He has a 10+ ERA and a WHIP around 2.00. Only three times this year has he given less than 5 earned runs in a start. Yikes!!!!!!!!!!

[-Dr. Brave-]

Update: Charlie Morton just might be the worst starting pitcher in MLB this year. He has a 10+ ERA and a WHIP around 2.00. Only three times this year has he given less than 5 earned runs in a start. Yikes!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe we could con the Pirates into undoing the McLouth trade.

[Lauren T.]

Maybe we could con the Pirates into undoing the McLouth trade.
I'll take Charlie back. :rolleyes:



(Notice I didn't say anything about pitching.)

[Dreamscape]

I'll take Charlie back. :rolleyes:



(Notice I didn't say anything about pitching.)
You've been quite randy lately :)

[The Rap]

[B]I still believe that Morton has what it takes to win in the majors and in fact makes a solid back-end starter./B]

[Lauren T.]

You've been quite randy lately :)
Eh, I'm bored. :laugh:

[luvdembravos]

[B]I still believe that Morton has what it takes to win in the majors and in fact makes a solid back-end starter./B]

Just curious why you think he "has what it takes to win in the majors"?

[The Rap]

Simply becazuse I have watched him pitch numerous times and still think he has what it takes

[Chris_Moderato]

Becazuse is the Roman god of wishful thinking, right?

[LeeTro]

Take a look at Roy Halladay's 2000 season. The absurd BABIP and HR rate are there, and it's safe to say he turned things around. I don't expect anything like that from Morton, but his xFIP is 4.60, which is servicable. He has good enough stuff to succeed, so hopefully he gets another chance to prove it.

[Hillbilly]

Troy Tulowitzki is in the midst of an insane power-binge right now. For the recent 10-game home stand he has a line of .375/ .405/ 1.125/ 1.530 with 9 home runs and 21 RBI. But just for good measure, he preceded that stretch with 2 homers and 2 doubles in a series at Petco Park.

For the month of September (15 games) his numbers are .361/ .409/ .984/ 1.393 with 11 home runs, 3 doubles, a triple, and 27 RBI.


Somebody call the humidor repair-man. Have mercy!