The Johnny Damon Thread. UPDATE: Damon/Tigers agree; 1 yr/$8M

[jamminHANES]

Currently, Johnny Damon is still unsigned and his market is continuing to drop. His price may eventually fall to the Braves' supposed asking price of $2 million. My question is, is Johnny Damon at $2 million an upgrade over current options?

On its face, Damon’s 2009 season should make him a very valuable commodity. He set career highs in OPS+ at 126, isoSLG (The difference between his batting average and slugging percentage, demonstrating power numbers) at .207, and tied a career best with 24 home runs.

The problem with these numbers is that over the past three years his home and away statistics are separating more and more each season. As Damon has aged, he has used the short right porch in right field of Yankee Stadium to his advantage.

In 2007, his home OPS was .742 and away was .750, in 2008 his home OPS was .846 and away .827, and in 2009 his home OPS was .889 and away .776.

The dipping away OPS, along with his age, and -12.1 UZR/150 in left field last season makes it understandable why so many teams have been passing on Damon’s services.

The current options for left field are a Matt Diaz platoon with either Eric Hinske or Melky Cabrera, and possibly later in the season Jordan Schafer.

Hinske has similar career platoon statistics as Damon, and had 5.3 UZR/150 in the outfield last season—much better than Damon’s.

Cabrera was not on Damon’s level offensively last season, however, outside of Yankee Stadium the splits were not as vast as one would assume.

Cabrera’s .745 OPS in away games last year, coupled with his age (25), and his career 4.0 UZR/150 in left field make him just as serviceable in left field as Damon, in my opinion.

Lastly, unless Schafer proves to be a much better player than he was last season he is not a better option than Damon. However, if Jordan produces how he had before his injury last season and in his minor league seasons, then Jordan’s defense and offense would make him a very valuable and cheap option left field.

Outside of the current options, as previously stated Johnny Damon would cost at least $2 million. This would handcuff the Braves if they want to make a midseason trade as they did last season with Nate McLouth.

Johnny Damon was a crucial part of last year's World Series champion New York Yankees, but Turner Field is not Yankee Stadium.

Maybe Damon can perform next year, but at the age of 36 moving into a bigger ballpark will severely decrease his overall value. The question still remains, is Johnny Damon at $2 million an upgrade over the Braves' current options?

[Dreamscape]

Johnny Damon is an upgrade, at least in 2010, for the Atlanta Braves because he has good on-base skills, enough pop, and a still some speed to make things happen. He is your perfect number two hitter.

Nevertheless, he is not a big enough upgrade for the Braves to look into. While there is a good chance of him approaching an .800 OPS next season, the Braves could probably reach that with Diaz/Cabrera/Hinske/Infante/Schafer in left and Heyward in right. Adding Damon necessates a move of Cabrera. Offensively, you break even and chances are, you slightly improve. However, that improvement is lost when you lose Cabrera's defense (especially his ability to slot over to center).

Damon would have been a good target had he hit free agency last year and was in the Braves' sights. He certainly would have been better than GAnderson. But this offseason, he does little to answer any of the Braves' needs, in my opinion. If the Braves do have $2M to spend on Damon, they have $2M that can be better spent on trades to fortify a positional weakness in-season.

[Dreamscape]

By the way, anyone see Johnny Damon having a Kenny Lofton career ahead of him, signing for a team with an opening in the outfield for a stopgap and getting traded to teams in need of a veteran outfield bat at the end of the season?

[HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN]

Depends on if he's prioritizing money or winning...If Money then yes I could see him signing with the highest bidder regardless of team and take the chance on getting moved to a winner at the deadline...

[KB 34]

If his price continues to drop I'd sign him without question. Signing him immediately puts Diaz into a 4th outfielder role where he excels. In an ideal world Cabrera would get traded for nothing and the Braves use his salary to get the deal done. If there's an excess of outfielders at the deadline Damon gets traded to the Yankees and everyone's happy with some production and prospects. It's a one year option but I'd like to see it happen.

[Agent-X-]

If his price continues to drop I'd sign him without question. Signing him immediately puts Diaz into a 4th outfielder role where he excels. In an ideal world Cabrera would get traded for nothing and the Braves use his salary to get the deal done. If there's an excess of outfielders at the deadline Damon gets traded to the Yankees and everyone's happy with some production and prospects. It's a one year option but I'd like to see it happen.

So I assume your expectations of Damon would be to perform significantly better than Melky Cabrera.

On that subject, I'm not sure I agree. I like Damon. If he could perform as well as he did at home in NYY, I'd be willing to ignore his defensive limitations.

[Dreamscape]

Cabrera's chief value is in his defense. While he may never be the plus defender in center that he is in left and right, he's no slouch in center either. He is the ideal fourth outfielder.

Right now, the Braves have a pretty good situation going, but this belief includes the idea that Jason Heyward can handle right field in 2010. Matt Diaz/Melky Cabrera/Eric Hinske/Omar Infante can share left field, getting all a good amount of at-bats, which helps out the entire team. I don't truly see a reason to add a man who likely won't be able to push an .800 OPS in Turner Field. I don't feel icky about platoons. True, if you have two players for one postion, it simply means you don't have one player for that position, but the Braves don't have the budget to be picky like that.

Again, Damon's advantages over Cabrera would help him post, maybe, a .025 point better OPS. Cabrera's defensive advantages, however, are huge. I'd rather have Cabrera over Damon in a park that benefits pitching.

[wordslayer©]

Kind of like being the skinniest kid in a fat camp.

If we could pool all of the $hitty players in baseball into one pool, then Damon would be the best $hitty player of the pool. I'm glad he'd be the best, but the bottom line is....he's still $hit.

[bravos4evr]

Damon is Cabrera but a better bat and a ****tier defense. Now, if you think that Damons bat mitigates his ****ty defense then you say"well yes! welcome Damon!!!" But if you think(like I do) that Damon's defense mitigates any advantage that he has over Cabreras offense well.... then we already have Damon... on the bench....

[The Rap]

Damon is still adamantly insisting on a two-year deal. Wonders never cease.

[Agent-X-]

The thing about Cabrera is that there is still some potentially untapped upside. There are those fans, and even a few scouts, who like Melky. It's not out of the question for him to fill out in the next few seasons. If he walked as much as he did a few years ago, he might post an .800 OPS. Additionally, I see no reason why Cabrera couldn't hit 20 homers. I'm not saying he will, but I am saying he could.

This is why I don't view Damon as an upgrade. Damon's numbers away from NY might only be what Cabrera did last season. In that case, I'll take Cabrera and enjoy the additional defense he provides for us.

Seriously, if Cabrera puts up a halfway decent season, I could start to feel better about him. Just, please, don't be Francoeur. LOL

[Andy G.]

Damon is decidedly better than Cabrera at the plate, regardless of what park they're hitting in. Damon creates more runs the Cabrera, and it's not even close. He is a huge upgrade over Cabrera offensively.

I don't look at defensive stats. I've just never gotten around to fully understanding them, because there's so many flaws and I just can't bring myself to trust them. However, there are a lot of smart people who do trust them, and they seem to believe that those numbers tell you a lot. If bravos says that the difference in their defense fully mitigates the advantage Damon has with the stick, all I can do is choose either to believe him or to call him an idiot :p. I choose to believe him, though I have to admit Damon is so much better offensively(really speaks for how bad of a hitter Cabrera has been so far), that I find it surprising that his defense could be bad enough to make him equal to Melky Cabrera.

As for his potential, which Agent X talked about, there's also that to consider. If the Braves feel like getting out of the AL East, and another year of maturity, will lead to him having somewhat of a breakout season, then all I can do is hope they're right.

[Agent-X-]

Damon is decidedly better than Cabrera at the plate, regardless of what park they're hitting in. Damon creates more runs the Cabrera, and it's not even close. He is a huge upgrade over Cabrera offensively.

I don't look at defensive stats. I've just never gotten around to fully understanding them, because there's so many flaws and I just can't bring myself to trust them. However, there are a lot of smart people who do trust them, and they seem to believe that those numbers tell you a lot. If bravos says that the difference in their defense fully mitigates the advantage Damon has with the stick, all I can do is choose either to believe him or to call him an idiot :p. I choose to believe him, though I have to admit Damon is so much better offensively(really speaks for how bad of a hitter Cabrera has been so far), that I find it surprising that his defense could be bad enough to make him equal to Melky Cabrera.

As for his potential, which Agent X talked about, there's also that to consider. If the Braves feel like getting out of the AL East, and another year of maturity, will lead to him having somewhat of a breakout season, then all I can do is hope they're right.

Where do you see the runs created statistic for Damon and Cabrera? I'd like to see Damon's RC/9 for away games. Simply, you are listing a stat I can't verify, and I look at Damon who fell just shy of .800 OPS in away games vs Melky who is really just 35 or 40 points lower. Sure, Damon has been a much better offensive threat in his career, but now? I don't feel it's nearly as significant a difference as you portray it. There is a big difference with position in lineup and who hits around Damon. The difference is having A. Rod and Teixiera behind you as opposed to being dead last in the lineup. Is that really a fair statistic to lean on here?

[Andy G.]

Where do you see the runs created statistic for Damon and Cabrera? I'd like to see Damon's RC/9 for away games. Simply, you are listing a stat I can't verify, and I look at Damon who fell just shy of .800 OPS in away games vs Melky who is really just 35 or 40 points lower. Sure, Damon has been a much better offensive threat in his career, but now? I don't feel it's nearly as significant a difference as you portray it. There is a big difference with position in lineup and who hits around Damon. The difference is having A. Rod and Teixiera behind you as opposed to being dead last in the lineup. Is that really a fair statistic to lean on here?

This is my post from the other thread when the Johnny Damon rumors began. This explains exactly why I think Damon is a much better hitter than Cabrera.
wOBA is OPS, but better. It's a weighted On-Base Average. Each potential outcome of a plate appearance has a run value(literally, how many runs come from that particular outcome) and those run values are what makes wOBA so good. That's what it means by "weighted". Rather than just measuring the percentage of at bats a hitter gets on base, and combining it with the measure of how many bases a player hits for per at bat, wOBA takes run values into consideration. The run value of each outcome is measured by the amount of runs that are created in any given inning by the support and/or as a result of that outcome. For example, a homerun has a 1.7 run value. Logically, it's higher than one because a homerun will create more than one run pretty often, since there may be people on base when a homerun is hit. These run values are based off of facts. People who are dedicated to improving baseball statistics actually do the mathematical legwork that allows them to know how many runs, on average, come from each outcome. You read it as you would read OBP. By that I mean that the league average wOBA is set to be the same as the league average OBP(usually around .330).

wRC is "Runs Created" based off of wOBA. wRC strips down wOBA to the amount of runs created, based on run values, by the outcome of each of his individual at bats.

wRC+ is wRC with park and league adjustments. It takes into account if a player achieves an outcome in a hitters/pitcher park or in an inferior/superior league. Just like OPS+ or ERA+, 100 is average, and every point above or below that is 1% better than average. For example, 120 is 20% above average.

Johnny Damon
wOBA wRC wRC+
2006 .362 101.9 121
2007 .340 79.6 107
2008 .370 97.9 130
2009 .376 99.5 132

Melky Cabrera
wOBA wRC wRC+
2006 .333 66.4 101
2007 .317 68.2 91
2008 .285 38.2 71
2009 .331 65.7 102

From what I can tell, Johnny Damon is clearly better than Melky Cabrera, and is an above average contributor at the plate.

[Hobbes]

For pure RC stats:

2009 2009 Career
RC RC/G RC/G
Cabrera 67 4.7 4.4
Damon 103 6.8 6.0

[bravos4evr]

For pure RC stats:

2009 2009 Career
RC RC/G RC/G
Cabrera 67 4.7 4.4
Damon 103 6.8 6.0


Well if you then compare their UZR( which I think last year was -12 for Damon to like a +15 for Cabrera or something) then I think their total production is very similar.....

[wordslayer©]

If you had to place a 10,000 dollar bet tomorrow on which of the two of them would have the better season next year, then my money is on Cabrera.

[Agent-X-]

Can we please see the runs created for Damon in his away games last year?

I think that will give us a clearer picture at least.

[bravos4evr]

Can we please see the runs created for Damon in his away games last year?

I think that will give us a clearer picture at least.

Fangraphs shows Damon ( Home RC-56.6 Away RC-43.0)


For Kicks I looked up Cabrera too ( Home RC-35.5 Away RC-30.2)

Oh and Fangraphs shows Cabrera's UZR last year in LF as -2.5 and Damon's as -9.2)

It makes them awfully close IMO, but I think Damon's OBP DOES make him the better player, however, not enough of a better player to bother with picking up then creating the need to trade Cabrera...

[bravos4evr]

Bowman and DOb are both reporting Braves made an official offer of around$4mill(including $2 mill deferred) to Damon, it's only a one year offer though.

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100210&content_id=8049586&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

[Gman]

Seems like a good gamble to me but I doubt that's enough dough to get Damon. Getting him would buy time to let Heyward get in 200+ more swings above class A which to me would be a good thing. The Braves can platoon Melky and Diaz around in RF and occasionally spell Damon until Heyward shows he's ready.

If Damon does well in the early months the braves should get a fair prospect for him in June/July along with a team picking up at least the 2mil defered money. Worst case they get a crap prospect and the other team pays his 2mil defered. If Damon hits extremely well (which he is very capable of doing) they could get an even better prospect, or the Braves could decide to just keep him and deal Melky.

The only risk is if Damon stinks up the joint (which is unlikely) or gets hurt. All in all a good way to parlay a couple million bucks (about what a middle of the road reliever costs) into possibly a nice piece for the future in a deadline trade plus a potential 3-month boost for the offense with Damon leading off and McClouth moving down where his power could drive in more runs.

I don't see much bad in doing this move personally especially when your talking paying that kind of money for a player coming off the season damon just had (I don't care what stadium he did it in, the AL East isn't exactly the cupcake division).

[KB 34]

If Damon hasn't gotten any better offers already I'm speculating he's the Braves starting LF on opening night. That makes the bench situation quite interesting if Heyward earns the RF job. Ross, Hinske, and Infante are locks because of their positions. Would that mean Diaz and Cabrera both come off the bench and leave Infante as the only middle infield backup? Diaz and Cabrera make it a really expensive bench, a bench not worth its salaries in my book. My best guess for the lineup would be:
Damon LF
Escobar ss
Chipper 3B
Glaus 1B
McCann C
McLouth CF
Prado 2B
Heyward RF

While a Damon/Diaz platoon sounds natural for LF, I'm notg sure if it would happen with Damon being the leadoff hitter. That might mean Heyward finds himself in a platoon or at AAA. Damon gives the Braves some added flexibility. I like McLouth further down in the lineup where he helps with the Braves lack of power a lot.

[Andy G.]

I would really like it if Damon comes to Atlanta for that price. Trade Melky for whatever you can get. No harm done. We don't have to get a great return to validate the Vazquez trade. Hudson's performance next year should do that for us. Heyward is your backup centerfielder, Infante is there in case of an emergency and Schafer is in AAA.

If Heyward's rookie season is like Tommy Hanson's, then he'll eventually be playing everyday and the platoon of Diaz and Damon will give us monster production in left field. I'm hoping that this happens.

[Chris_Moderato]

I don't think there's any chance Johnny Damon will be platooning if he comes to Atlanta. I also don't think it's very likely the Braves will waste Heyward in a backup role. If Damon come to Atlanta, it seems more likely to me that he will start in left, McLouth in center, and Diaz/Cabrera in right field. They'll probably stash Heyward down in Gwinnett, at least until June. Maybe they'll move someone at that point.

Just my best guess.

[Gman]

I don't think there's any chance Johnny Damon will be platooning if he comes to Atlanta. I also don't think it's very likely the Braves will waste Heyward in a backup role. If Damon come to Atlanta, it seems more likely to me that he will start in left, McLouth in center, and Diaz/Cabrera in right field. They'll probably stash Heyward down in Gwinnett, at least until June. Maybe they'll move someone at that point.

Just my best guess.

In response to your post BFH, the way Chris laid it out is what I would see happening if the Braves got Damon. It won't be plastered all over the news that way because I do think they'll still give Heyward a solid shot at RF this spring. This would just up the competition. I'm sure they'll watch Heyward closely this spring against true ML pitchers to get a read. With 169 PA's in AA he probably only got about 20-30 at bats against pitchers with major league ready stuff and control not to mention lefthanders with that m.o.

If they get Damon and Heyward still wins the starting RF job this spring it's not that much of a problem to fix. They could keep 5 OFs (Heyward, Diaz, Damon, Melky and McLouth) since Hinske (1b, 3b, COF), Glaus (1b, 3b), Infante (2b, ss, 3b, OF), and Prado (2b, 3b, 1b, SS) provide a lot of flexibility for short-term injury plug-ins. Who'd get bumped here if they kept 5 OFs? Diory? I think they'd get a lot more value out of 5 OFs from a pinch-hitting, platooning, and subbing standpoint then they will out of carrying an extra MI like Diory.

[Chris_Moderato]

MLBTR is citing various sources saying that the White Sox and Tigers are bidding on Damon's services now, and that the Tigers' owner has authorized a 2-year, $14M offer to Damon.

If that's the case, I hope the Braves paltry offer is the only one they make him. He ain't worth that much, especially over two seasons.

[wordslayer©]

Thank gawd there are teams dumber than we are. They save us from ourselves.

[Gman]

MLBTR is citing various sources saying that the White Sox and Tigers are bidding on Damon's services now, and that the Tigers' owner has authorized a 2-year, $14M offer to Damon.

If that's the case, I hope the Braves paltry offer is the only one they make him. He ain't worth that much, especially over two seasons.

Didn't figure that amount would work but it's all they should spend on Damon. Might as well turn around and offer Damon's deal to Dye after Damon signs with Detroit. Nothing wrong with trying to get the most bang for the limited bucks they have left. The same reasons to sign Damon are there to sign Dye. Dye actually might be the one who has the better offensive season between the two. Plus he has the arm to play RF if needed.

Please don't bury me with UZR ratings on that last statement. I don't put much stock in the UZR ratings. It's just too flawed a stat from my perspective. But if UZR is accurately portraying Dye's defense then keep him in LF. Hey...maybe he'll become a top-15 OF like Ibanez was in '09 according to UZR! :rolleyes: (you'd have to have watched Ibanez in LF as many times as I did when he was in Seattle to understand why I rolled my eyes).

[KB 34]

If the Tigers want Damon for that money good luck to them. Got another Jurrjens to trade us Detroit?

[BigWorm]

I don't believe that the Tigers are that dumb to more than double the current offer AND offer a second year at that price. If that offer was real, he'd already be a Tiger.

[Gman]

I don't believe that the Tigers are that dumb to more than double the current offer AND offer a second year at that price. If that offer was real, he'd already be a Tiger.

Here's my guess on how it got reported this way:

Tigers to Boras: "We'll give Johnny one year, 3.5 mil with another 3.5 mil deferred based on incentives. If Johnny still insists on a 2 year deal we'll put something else together.

Boras to the tigers: "OK I'll let Johnny know".

Boras to the press: "Right now there are three teams clamoring for Johnny's services. I just got a 1year 7mil offer from one team. They are leaving it up to Johnny if he wants to go two years on a deal instead of just one."

Press to the public: "We just learned from Scott Boras that Damon has an open offer of up to 2 years-7mil/yr from one team. That team can only be Detroit because the Whitesox and Braves don't have that much to spend and they are the only other teams in on the bidding for Damon."

So that's how I expect $7mil/2yrs comes out when in all likelihood no one has really offered more then 4mil. Nobody was really lied to, but the press undoubtedly got played by Boras....again. :no:

[Andy G.]

I pretty sure that Damon has not received a better offer from another team. Bowman put up another article (http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100219&content_id=8103326&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl)about the possibility of Damon landing in Atlanta. The comments under the article said it's the same one he put up a couple of weeks ago. I don't think it he would have published it if the Braves didn't have the best offer on the table right now. The more time passes, the more likely it is that Damon comes to Atlanta.

[Andy G.]

If he had an offer for $7.5 million, and the next best offer was just over half of that amount, I don't think he'd be a free agent right now. That's the best case scenario for him on this market, IMO. I could be proven wrong tomorrow or the next day, but I don't believe the Tigers offered him anything close to $7.5 million.

[KB 34]

Boras does seem to be working teams trying to make them believe someone else has made a huge offer Damon can't pass up. The problems are
1. No one has made that big of offer
2. No one cares that much
3. No owner wants to spend more money in a crummy economy.
Good luck Boras, I doubt you're going to get anyone to cave.

[Gman]

The squabbling in negotiations over deffered money is a bit of a new trend but it isn't surprising when you look at the recent economy. If there was ever a great time for a team to defer contract dollars it's today (and last year). The formulas for calculating present value of money always use a flat rate of growth for the economy. The economy's ups and downs are seldom flat and the last few years we have been in a downward moving economy. It's been a lot of years since you could buy real estate, stocks and free agents at the prices you can today. Money has never been cheaper to borrow. How fast (and when) the economy heats up is anybody's guess but the signs seem to show it rising from it's depths. If it only heats up as fast as the pv value multiplier then no-harm-no-foul for the team making deferred payments. However if it heats up as fast as it sank then a dollar today is going to be worth quite a more than a pv adjusted dollar tomorrow.

When you're talking millions of dollars this little oddity I've mentioned can add up pretty quick. Any good agent would know that and so would any team's bean counter.

[Dreamscape]

Guess that blows the whole "Boras can't get Damon big money" idea out the window. It wasn't that Damon didn't have a better offer...he was simply getting an even better offer.

[Andy G.]

That's what I get for thinking I'm smarter than BFH. Lesson learned.

[wordslayer©]

I hope MLB expands the season to 190 games. Detroit deserves the opportunity to lose 180 of them. I want them to have plenty of opportunities to celebrate their stupidity.

[Andy G.]

Holy crap. They gave him eight million and they can't trade him at the deadline if they're out of it? Wow.

[Hobbes]

If the Tigers gave him a no-trade clause the GM should be immediately fired. He probably should be anyway for giving him $8M, competing against nobody.

[The Rap]

Thank gawd there are teams dumber than we are. They save us from ourselves.

Not as dumb as you think because you forget they are in the AL where Damon's value increases because of the DH option.

[wordslayer©]

Not as dumb as you think because you forget they are in the AL where Damon's value increases because of the DH option.

I didn't forget this at all. Seriously...I've remembered it for many years.........no $hit.......and please don't think I am lying here, but I promise you that I did know that Detroit was in the AL. I don't mean to boast here, so don't take this wrong, but I even knew it when I was in second grade. Let me digress..........

I was at lunch one day and we had just finished a hard morning of doing some reading in our basal readers. I head off to the cafeteria, hoping that my school system was hip enough to have a liquor license, but they didn't, so Bobby, Stan and I sit through our lunches and talked some baseball. I remember that Stan was a huge Detroit fan, and he was always telling me that Detroit could kick the ass of any team in the national league. Keep following me here.........

And so......I actually learned that detroit was in the american league by exclusion. Hang on........I'm going to make my point. IF Detroit could beat any team in the national league, then that, more than likely means, they weren't IN the national league, because if they were, then they would have already beaten all the national league teams. Anyhow, since I'm not one to boast....ignore my sig for a moment.....then I won't mention anything else about it. And so, back to the topic.

You can slice it, you can dice it, you can spin it, you can pin it, you can read this in a car, you can read this in a bar...but however you read it,

this is one dumb mother fu**** who gave him this contract.

And as I originally said, thank gawd there are teams out there dumber than we are.

[KB 34]

I guess the Tigers GM was given a no competence clause in his contract. Good luck to them, part of the reason I was interested in Damon was he'd have some good value in June or July and could be shipped for some nice prospects. Boras wins.

[Chris_Moderato]

I guess the Tigers GM was given a no competence clause in his contract. Good luck to them, part of the reason I was interested in Damon was he'd have some good value in June or July and could be shipped for some nice prospects. Boras wins.

Boras deserved to win this one.

[Dreamscape]

And the funny thing is...Damon goes from a hitter's paradise to one that simply can swallow non-steroid hitters up. This is one very confusing signing because it's not like the Tigers needed Damon. Ryan Raburn is a solid player in left who may handle center, but that's questionable. I assume their route is to give Austin Jackson time, install Damon in left, and move Raburn to center. Otherwise, they are paying Carlos Guillen a lot of money to be the utility guy. Either way, I simply do not understand why they went this route except to say "hey fans, we did something other than sign Jose Valverde and pick up Max Scherzer and Austin Jackson.

And to give him a no-trade clause...?

Seriously, what the bejesus is going on?

[Chris_Moderato]

And Mark Bowman covering his tracks...

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100220&content_id=8106442&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

Basically said we weren't ever expecting him to sign at the 'bargain basement' price. We just threw it out there because we thought Damon really did want to play for Atlanta and might have been willing to accept a bargain deal to do so. You know...which we've established doesn't really work so much anymore.

In any event, Bowman now backtracks and says we're confident in Nate as a leadoff hitter and we're confident in Heyward and we weren't ever contenders for Damon's services.


Yep. Mmhhmmm. Yep.

http://blogs.dixcdn.com/leftofcybercenter/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/king-of-hill.jpg

Mark Bowman is such a toolbag.

[slowride]

Allow me to weigh in: good.

[KB 34]

Science tells us if you bang your head into a wall enough times you will eventually break through the wall because of the particles not lining up as expected. It may take trillions of times but it's statistically possible. The Braves have decided if they continue to offer players half their value eventually one will sign. 50% the value seems to be a theme that started with the Braves offer for A-Rod being doubled by the Rangers. The fustration has started to mount for Braves management and now they seem to release some kind of justification of why 50% was a serious offer, if necessary labeling the player ungrateful and greedy, with the preferred method being Bowman writing a nice fluff piece that puts the crowds to sleep until season tickets go on sale.

[Andy G.]

Science tells us if you bang your head into a wall enough times you will eventually break through the wall because of the particles not lining up as expected. It may take trillions of times but it's statistically possible. The Braves have decided if they continue to offer players half their value eventually one will sign. 50% the value seems to be a theme that started with the Braves offer for A-Rod being doubled by the Rangers. The fustration has started to mount for Braves management and now they seem to release some kind of justification of why 50% was a serious offer, if necessary labeling the player ungrateful and greedy, with the preferred method being Bowman writing a nice fluff piece that puts the crowds to sleep until season tickets go on sale.
What are you talking about? The Braves offered Damon 100% of what he's worth, not caring about his name or his agent. The Tigers are idiots and were played by Scott Boras.

[KB 34]

What are you talking about? The Braves offered Damon 100% of what he's worth, not caring about his name or his agent. The Tigers are idiots and were played by Scott Boras.
Damon's value on the market was $8 million. Unfortunately one moronic GM or owner can cause a lot of problems for baseball by well, deciding someone like Damon's worth $8 million.

[Gman]

The Tigers had a much greater need for Damon (and better fit) than any of the chasers so it makes sense that they would be willing to pay more. Their projected lineup is all RH bats save for switch hitting Guillen. So Damon was more of a necessity for the Tigers versus a nice addition if you can get him for the right price. Plus the Tigers will get more value out of Damon given they have the DH to hide his defense. I don't see anything wrong with how the Braves tried to get him for a price that made sense for them. I also don't see anything wrong with the tigers paying 8mil for him because could easily be that valuable for them even if he doesn't match his 2009 numbers.

[BigWorm]

Over/Under on Johnny Damon Home runs for 2010= 7

[HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN]

Over...I say 12, probally a season simillar to 07 minus some of the SB's...

[ScooterBrave]

This is the second time I can think of for thanking Detroit. The first was for John Smoltz and now for "stealing" Damon away from us. He's a has-been, having formerely been a barely-was.

[KB 34]

I'd say we owe them a third thank you for Jurrjens and a key to Atlanta.

[The Rap]

I rememebr the ARod situation very well. He and we went to bed that night thinking they we were having a press conference the next morning. Then Texas called very late and told ARod they were willing to double the Braves offer but that he had to make a decision right at that moment. Only a fool would have turned them down.

[HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN]

and the Braves are better for it...sure AROD's a great player, but I don't think the past decade would have any drasticly different with him on the roster...And there's always the chance that with him we'd never have had the chance to draft McCann,Hanson,Heyward,etc....

[KB 34]

I'm not going to lie, I would have loved having A-Rod for $12 million per year. Charles Johnson was a $10 million per year player at that point. Darren Droift or whatever his name was got 5 years $55 million. Hampton and Neagle were given boneheaded contracts. During the past x years A-Rod put up huge numbers and was incredible. Of couse getting him for $12 million wasn't likely to happen and for $25 million he wasn't worth it. Things could have turned out much worse for the Braves. They could have gotten Hampton 2 years earlier. hahahaha

[The Rap]

Well it is all water under the bridge and based on a number of "what ifs" so who really cares anyway?

[Chris_Moderato]

Well it is all water under the bridge and based on a number of "what ifs" so who really cares anyway?

That doesn't mean it's not still a conversation worth having.

[warefreak]

and the Braves are better for it...sure AROD's a great player, but I don't think the past decade would have any drasticly different with him on the roster...And there's always the chance that with him we'd never have had the chance to draft McCann,Hanson,Heyward,etc....


Having Arod at SS would have made the Braves better. There can't be any doubt about that. We did very good in the years we drafted McCann and Hanson and so I'm pretty sure we would have drafted them anyways. Heyward... maybe, maybe not.

Either way I think paying Arod 12 million would have been the best contract in baseball those years.

Water under the bridge is right but I can't foresee anything that says we're better for not having Arod on our team those years. I am pretty dang sure we would have been a LOT better. Furcal would have been our 2b instead of SS and we would have had one heck of a lineup. Chipper's stats would have been better, etc etc etc.

[HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN]

Having Arod at SS would have made the Braves better. There can't be any doubt about that. We did very good in the years we drafted McCann and Hanson and so I'm pretty sure we would have drafted them anyways. Heyward... maybe, maybe not.

Either way I think paying Arod 12 million would have been the best contract in baseball those years.

Water under the bridge is right but I can't foresee anything that says we're better for not having Arod on our team those years. I am pretty dang sure we would have been a LOT better. Furcal would have been our 2b instead of SS and we would have had one heck of a lineup. Chipper's stats would have been better, etc etc etc.

it wasn't 12 though...I believe total package would have netted him 160 or mill over the life of the contract....I seem to remember it was rumored to be for 8 years, but not sure...it was somewhere between 7 and 10...

[KB 34]

I seem to remember speculative reports that the Braves made an offer around $160 million at the time. However, in his book JS said the Braves offered A-Rod 10 years $128 million, which was then doubled by the Rangers owner. That's the most credible source on what the Braves actually offered A-Road out there and the figure I believe.

[HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN]

didn't read the book, so if that's what was said then that would probally be true then...