Report: Phillies dealing for Roy Halladay in 3-Team Trade

[Chris_Moderato]

It looks as though the Phillies are trading for Roy Halladay (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/roy-halladay-rumors-monday-1.html) and working out an extension, while sending Cliff Lee to (probably) the Mariners.

Not sure about this deal. If the Phillies were going into 2010 with both Halladay and Lee, I'd be concerned. But they basically moved a perennial Cy Young-candidate for another perennial Cy Young candidate.

Thoughts?

[Andy G.]

Yeah, as long as Lee was moved in the deal, I really don't think they improved that much. I hope they had to give up Happ or a really good prospect. If they gave up very much, I'll actually be glad that they made this deal.

[The Rap]

I'm thrilled because on another thread I said there is no way they deal Lee because getting Roy gives them a BIG 3 of Roy, Lee and Hamels. I think the Phils are stupid because they could have gotten Roy for Happ and Blanton and a third body.

[The Rap]

Oh and Lackey is very close to signing with the Red Sox which means we can already consider Lowe a more valuable commodity than before

[The Rap]

Yea but it is them that also fuels my fire to get Adrian into our lineup which looks putrid without him and when compared to theirs.

[sdp]

This is one confusing deal at the moment, so I'll have to wait to comment.

The Padres have no motivation to move Adrian Gonzalez lest they be absolutely blown away with a deal they could ill refuse. Needless to say, the Braves aren't really in position to hock the farm for another first baseman.

[Middle Man]

Yeah, it's a bit of a head-scratcher. I guess the one plus for the Phils is that Halladay will apparently sign an extension with the Phils as part of the deal while Lee would have been a free agent after 2010.

Of course, as we know all too well, expensive, long-term deals with pitchers don't always seem like such a great deal a year or two later.

[The Rap]

I don't think the Phillies did that great. I believe thyey could have gotten Halladay without giving up Lee which would have made them the opremier team in the game. Now the Mariners have what is possibly the best one-two punch in their top duo of starters; Felix Hernandez and Lee. Also dealing Drabek is almost tantamount to us dealing away Hanson

[Hobbes]

I don't think the Phillies did that great. I believe thyey could have gotten Halladay without giving up Lee which would have made them the opremier team in the game. Now the Mariners have what is possibly the best one-two punch in their top duo of starters; Felix Hernandez and Lee. Also dealing Drabek is almost tantamount to us dealing away Hanson
Yes, they could have had them both, but as I said elsewhere they couldn't afford them both. Additionally, they needed the prospects they got for Lee.

This article explains nicely. (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/121509-rosenthal-phillies-cant-have-lee-and-halladay)

[The Rap]

Think about what you just wrote. It is ok to give Freeman and Shafer but not drain the whole system? So what did I propose? Those two and Kris Medlen. Is that a drain on our whole system? Is Medlen that good? Since when? And like I told you earlier, I never said the 4th one has to be a really fine prospect but rather a true add-on based on giving the Padres a list and letting them pick one from the likes of Gregor Blanco or somneone younger in that class. The Teixeira deal was one of the worst after the fact ones ever made. Naftali, Elvis, Harrison, etc We practically gave the Rangers a boost into new respectability with one clean swoop.

[The Rap]

BTW, I also think many of us here are really lowballing the value of Lowe. He faded near the end but pitched well most of the season and led our club with 15 wins. I really believe the Angels, Yankees and someone else will get involved and if the Angels offer us Juan Rivera we are set as long as we pull the trigger on getting Adrian. I also have a feeling that Adrian knows that he is wanted, that he will never hit his potential playing in San Diego and would jump at the chance to come play for us.

[The Rap]

Yea but my real point is that no one, you, me or anyone else, especially here, really knows what is really going on. If I told you two months ago that we would oose Ryan Church and Kelly Johnson and get nothing at all for them would you have said I know what I am talking about?

[The Rap]

Well the last I heard the deal is from the Red Sox; Ellsbury and Buchholz for Adrian. Also I don't agree totally with letting Church go and feel we should have gotten something for Kelly. Obviously we don't when we let it drift and the other teams know he will be let go.

[Lauren T.]

Essentially, yes. Kris Medlen, Jordan Schafer and Freddie Freeman basically represent all that is left in the upper echelon of our farm system. The rest of our prospects are in A-ball or rookie leagues.
Jason Heyward? ;)

[bravos4evr]

Jason Heyward? ;)



somebody get that purty girl a twanky!

[The Rap]

Sorry but I have no idea what that is

[bravos4evr]

a twanky? it's a twinkie in a deep southern accent. example: Hello ma'am might I interest you in a tasty bite of my chocolate covered twanky?

[Chris_Moderato]

a twanky? it's a twinkie in a deep southern accent. example: Hello ma'am might I interest you in a tasty bite of my chocolate covered twanky?

*SMACK!*

[bravos4evr]

*SMACK!*

yeah, sometimes that happens

[warefreak]

To add on to what Hobbes explained thus far, not only could the Phillies not afford both of their salaries, I'm not sure it would have been the wisest move for them to make if trading Lee had not been involved.

I mean...sure, you can say the Phils needed the prospects from the Mariners to get the deal done, but they probably couldhave went with Happ and Drabek and overpaid in that fashion too. However, the problem with acquiring Halladay without trading Lee is that they would completely drain their system of talent.



From a Phillies standpoint it was a good move... if Lee was actually going to test free agency.

The interest part of all this is that Lee is saying he wanted to stay... and wanted to stay badly. I think the guy needs to hire a new agent because the agent dropped the ball then because somewhere the two sides had a misunderstanding.

The bad part about the Lee trade (for the Phillies) is they did NOT get that good of prospects back in the deal. In fact I don't think any of those prospects are going to amount to much. However the prospects they gave to Toronto could amount to 2 all stars and an ok catcher. I think they should have hung onto Lee a bit longer and they probably could have got better talent back or even signed him to a long extension and had both.

For the people who said they needed to restock their system... look closely at the players they got back. They're not blue chip prospects. The best player is a reliever, Aumont. The pitcher Ramirez is probably going to be a #3 starter at best, and the Gillies is going to be probably a AAAA outfielder. They didn't even get back the type of talent they gave to the Indians when they got Lee.

Good for us Braves though. The Phillies system is now, IMO, pretty much empty except for Brown. The only problem is that their team is all in their prime, very young, and locked up for awhile. Unless they have a serious injury... they don't need a minor league system.

In the end it's a move I love... as a Braves fan. I love our team but I don't think we could have matched up against Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Happ, and Brett Myers. Not with the incredible offense they have.

[The Rap]

I may be wrong but I don't think Brett Myers is a Phillie anymore

[warefreak]

I may be wrong but I don't think Brett Myers is a Phillie anymore


You're right... well put Jamie Moyer/Joe Blanton in there then.

We have a hell of a good staff but I don't think we could have hoped to be that staff along with that offense.

[The Rap]

Well the Phillies have Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Happ and then the 5th spot which I think will be shared by the old farts, Jamie Moyer and Pedro Martinez. Their real issue is the bullpen because which Brad Lidge is going to show up this year?

[The Rap]

BTW, you just described why I am so hot after Adrian Gonzales just like I was for Billy Wagner. Adrian would be such a significant boost to our lineup that I wouldnlt worry that much about the Phillies.

[warefreak]

If we put ourselves in the place where we don't have to worry about the Phillies we better win the world series because they only have two problems... bullpen and #5 starter.

The thing with them right now (the same thing with them when they had Lee) is only Halladay is going to be a sure win for the Phillies. They are setup to win during the season, but unless they get a better #2 they aren't going anywhere when it comes to playin the Yanks or other AL team.

Ourselves, I think we have 3, maybe 4, pitchers that we can count on to win during a big game.

[The Rap]

You make way too little of Cole Hamels IMO. The kid can throw bullets and simply had a bad year.

[warefreak]

In 2008 we saw a Cy Young candidate in the playoffs. In 2009 we saw a #5 pitcher that didn't even want to be there. IMO he's somebody in between.

I hope for our sake that 2009 and going forward is the type of player he is going to be. But you're right, if he can turn it around he'll be a great pitcher. If he was in our rotation right now though the only pitcher I'd put him in front of would be Tim Hudson. JJ, Hanson, and JV are all pitching in front of him.

[The Rap]

Well that's based on the bad year he had. The guy has tools not many have and the Phillies wouldn't even discuss trading him. He will win between 15 and 20 next season with over 200 k's if he stays healthy.

[The Rap]

In addition he would be an incredible addition to our rotation as our only lefty.