John Smoltz DFA'd by Red Sox

[RiknTN]

Smoltz was DFA by Boston shortly ago.

[BigWorm]

Sign him, as a Reliever/Closer. For the minimum, since dumbass Boston gave him 5 mil guaranteed.

[Devil Wears Prado]

I saw this one coming. I knew after watching the Yankees/Red Sox game last night that Smoltz is done. His velocity still gets up there, but his location is just terrible now. He lost a lot of 'stuff' on his slider. It looks more like a cutter now and he often leaves it over the plate. I don't know if I would sign him as a reliever or a closer... if Wren wanted Smoltz, I guess he could get him for the league minimum so at least Smoltz is back in Atlanta. But I would not get my hopes up at all that Smoltz would be that one bullpen arm that makes our bullpen look much better at the end of ths easion (in playoff contention or not).

[warefreak]

We should sign him... if for nothing else to have him retire as a Brave. We can always sign him as an assistant pitching coach and let him be in the dugout to try and help Hanson, Medlin, Jurrjens, etc.

[Andy G.]

We just don't know though. Maybe Smoltz would be more successful as a reliever since he can air it out in one inning rather than focusing on making it through the lineup a few times. Then again, you'd think the Red Sox would have explored that option as well. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he did finish the season in the Braves' bullpen. If he does want to try it, I hope Wren gives him the chance. Send Acosta down while Smoltz gives it a shot.

I just hate seeing this. John Smoltz is the ultimate competitor. You know this has been difficult for him.

[argentina brave]

smoltz is done...if he could help out as a reliever, the sox wouldn't have dfa'd him. they aren't a stupid org.

[sdp]

I don't see Smoltz or the Braves having any interest in returning. It's not that he can't help, maybe he could, I don't know. But there's been too much bad mouthing on Smoltz's part to be welcomed right back into the fold. It would look opportunistic and hypocritical on his part and the Braves' part.

[Andy G.]

I don't thinks so sdp. Smoltz said all along that he will always consider himself a Brave and would like to return to the organization after his playing days are over, even if it's just to hang out during spring training or something. If he can't pitch anymore, he won't come back, but I don't think that hard feelings would keep him from coming back to the Braves.

[Chris_Moderato]

I'd like to see him in a relief role somewhere, maybe even here. It's not like we have a rocksteady bullpen. Doubt it'll happen, though.

[luvdembravos]

He can't be much worse than the back end of our bullpen, can he?

[Chris_Moderato]

He can't be much worse than the back end of our bullpen, can he?

Yeah, that's what I mean. He can't be that bad, at least for an inning or two.

[FrankEC]

I think he's done. I don't know if it's true, I haven't bothered to look it up, but I heard on the radio on the way home that out of the ~90 pitches he threw last night, the Yanks only swung and missed twice. Granted the Yanks are a very good hitting team, but that's just not good.

[sdp]

I don't know if Smoltz could physically handle being a reliever again. 42-years-old with a surgically-repaired elbow, I just don't see how he could be called upon 3-4 times a week to pitch an inning or two. It would be hard to imagine.

I don't think Smoltz is interested in pitching for anybody else. What does he have to gain by taking the show on the road to some cellar-dweller looking for some innings? It's either retirement or the Red Sox and as hard as it is to imagine, he may accept a minor-league assignment.

[ScooterBrave]

Like the Prodigal Son, I would kill the fatted calf and throw a party and gladly welcome him back into a Braves uni. As was said earlier in this thread, if nothing else, you get the leadership that Smoltz brings to the team.

[Wahoo]

He's done. I think he knows it too. I have yet to see him hit 95 on any radar gun, and his command has been consistently poor. Time to hang 'em up, John.

[The Rap]

Allow me to be the first to say that this makes Wren look like a genius as it was he who didn't want Smoltz on our team. I would rather he appeal to MLB to modify its rules and not count this year so he can enter the HOF with Greg and Tommy.

[KB 34]

The bullpen isn't stellar by any stretch of the imagination so I would offer him a contract to pitch out of the bullpen. Maybe BC would have enough trust in him to give Moylan a few more days off? From a more personal point of view it could save face in a sense for both sides if they agreed to a deal. The Braves trashed Smoltz for noting the difference between guaranteed money and incentives, while Smoltz let the organization have it for wanting a 50% hometown discount given the difference between incentives and cash. Neither side looked like a poster child when the deal went down and this could provide another chance. Most importantly, don't underestimate Smoltz because more than likely he'll make you pay dearly for it.

[Devil Wears Prado]

He's done. I think he knows it too. I have yet to see him hit 95 on any radar gun, and his command has been consistently poor. Time to hang 'em up, John.

His velocity is still there. He's throwing up to 93-94. His slider is still up there too, around 84-85. It's just his location is terrible and his 'stuff' isn't as good as it used to be anymore. He's done for.

I'd sign him as an assistant coach next spring. Maybe Smoltz and Maddux can come into spring training next year teaching the young kids a thing or two. And when Glavine stops crying he can come on down and join the old crew teaching the new crew.

[luvdembravos]

Allow me to be the first to say that this makes Wren look like a genius as it was he who didn't want Smoltz on our team.


I wouldn't say Wren is a genius but he's showing me that he's a decent GM who is willing to make sound business decisions and not let emotions get in the way. I love Smoltz and Glavine and appreciate all they did for Atlanta but Wren showed guts by not overpaying for their services. IMO he's an above average GM and getting better.

[sdp]

Allow me to be the first to say that this makes Wren look like a genius as it was he who didn't want Smoltz on our team. I would rather he appeal to MLB to modify its rules and not count this year so he can enter the HOF with Greg and Tommy.

Wren offered Smoltz a contract so I don't believe it's valid to say that Wren didn't want Smoltz on the team. What Wren didn't want to do was tie up valuable money in an aging veteran coming off major surgery. Obviously, that didn't sit well with Smoltz and so he left.

I don't think it really makes Wren look like a "genius" because, after all, he did offer Smoltz a contract.

What this does more than anything is vindicate Wren for all the fire he took for his decision to lowball Smoltz.

[wordslayer©]

First of all, let me say that I am a huge Smoltz apologist.

I've never bought an atlanta brave shirt. I've never bought one single piece of any kind of atlanta brave paraphernalia. 99% of all the braves players I could easily say goodbye to, as long as we replaced them with someone else who was equally good, so it's not a stretch for me to say that I don't get caught up with hero worship of ballplayers at all.

It still was a mistake for Smoltz to leave like he did, and it was a mistake for Wren to let it happen like he did.

Smoltz took less money to play here. Smoltz took on different roles to play here. Smoltz played hurt more than most players I've ever seen. He told Wren he could pitch and that should have been enough for Wren to give him a one year guaranteed contract, along with giving him the support that the organization did believe in him. Smoltz isn't some crybaby ballplayer who wears his feelings on his sleeve. If he left like he was done wrong, it was because of the way the braves handled it.

Wren and company blew it and Smoltz did what any player would do that still has an ounce of dignity left would do....he left.

If Smoltz felt he was done dirty by the organization, then I am certain that he was. It doesn't matter that he failed with the red sox. He was owed the opportunity to fail with the braves.

Personally, I still don't think he is done. I think he may try to sign on with another team and give it another shot. But then again, I'd be the last one to ever count him out.

[Wahoo]

His velocity is still there. He's throwing up to 93-94. His slider is still up there too, around 84-85. It's just his location is terrible and his 'stuff' isn't as good as it used to be anymore. He's done for.

I'd sign him as an assistant coach next spring. Maybe Smoltz and Maddux can come into spring training next year teaching the young kids a thing or two. And when Glavine stops crying he can come on down and join the old crew teaching the new crew.

Well no, his velocity isn't still there. He will occasionally hit 93 and 94, but his fastball is closer to 91 on a regular basis these days. He has most definitely lost velocity. Prior to the surgery 94 was his average fastball, and he still get it up to 97. He can't touch 97 right now, and has trouble just hitting 93.

[BigWorm]

Someone buy wordslayer a Braves t-shirt. jeez

[Lauren T.]

I've got about 10 -- want me to send you one, wordslayer?

[wordslayer©]

I've got about 10 -- want me to send you one, wordslayer?

You all are funny.

There is no way/no how that I will ever own a shirt that has any sort of message/advertisement/team on it. I'm glad that others do, but I just hate them.

Good gawd...you have TEN of them??? LOLOL And all of them have the number 7 on them??? :cool:

[Lauren T.]

Actually, the only numbered shirts I have are #16. I had a #3 when I was three years old and thought I was the coolest girl ever. :D

[quick]

Well no, his velocity isn't still there. He will occasionally hit 93 and 94, but his fastball is closer to 91 on a regular basis these days. He has most definitely lost velocity. Prior to the surgery 94 was his average fastball, and he still get it up to 97. He can't touch 97 right now, and has trouble just hitting 93.


I watched him for an inning in his last game and his fastball was in the 93 range and his slider looked good--to me.

In 2009, Smolts had 9 walks in 40 innings, but he was giving up hits--59 in 40 innings. He had 33 strikeouts in those same 40 innings. Not bad. The percentage of all at bats against Smoltz ending in a strikeout was 17.7%, which is about major league average, but is below his career standard of 21.6%. 71% of his pitches were put in play, compared to his lifetime number of 68%. His number last year was 61%, and the year before 68%.

Batting average against is .341, OPS is .968, much higher than his career numbers of .237 and .653, respectively.

His homerun to flyball percentage tied his career high with 10.8%. His career average is 6.2%.

His percentage of pitches swung at was 48%, while his lifetime number is 49%. His contact percentage was 78%, while he was 70% last year and has a lifetime number of 75%. First pitch strikes were 63%, compared to 62% lifetime.

Where does that leave us? He's getting the ball over the plate, and he's getting a fair number of strikeouts. When he does get it over, though, too often he is getting hit, and often for power. He likely is lacking the late "life" on his pitches that make them harder to hit cleanly. Part of what is unique this year is John has no pitcher at the end of the order as a "gimme" and he pitches in that little box called Fenway, and of course he faces lots of new hitters he doesn't know in a league that has better hitters.

Is he done? Perhaps, but it seems to me if by grip, arm slot, or release point adjustment he gets his late "life" back, he may be a quality pitcher again. He IS getting the ball over the plate and he can still go 90-plus--97 is great, but hardly necessary.

Would he be a good closer?--not if he is getting hit this much. If someone has 2009 and career stats for him the first time through the order versus later, I'd like to see them. If he starts hot but then fades, he may still be a good closer or set up man.

Also, I think it makes Wren look smart for not overdoing it going after John. That said, I hope Wren called to invite him back as a roving pitching instructor, etc., as we need to keep our stars in some capacity. The legacy of the Atlanta Braves is being built today.

[Dreamscape]

Velocity really isn't Smoltz's problem. While he has lost some, his average fastball is clocked at 91.3, which is about 1.0 to 1.4 mph worse than his average fastball since he moved back to the rotation. Pitch selection is showing no discernable difference from this year and past years. He simply isn't getting the movement, as quick pointed to. Because his groundball percentage is lower and his HR/9 has skyrocketed, it's pretty clear he's not getting the ball down. It could be a mechanical problem or it simply could be a "he's done" problem. Some other team will give him a chance and maybe in the National League, he will be more successful. I just don't think the Braves will be that team, especially coming off last offseason.

[Hobbes]

I can't see the Braves brining him back, nor Smoltz agreeing to return. It looks bad for both sides given the recent history between he and them.

He might catch on with another team, but it won't be the Braves.

[luvdembravos]

The page has been turned. Keep it that way.

[jamminHANES]

First of all, let me say that I am a huge Smoltz apologist.

I've never bought an atlanta brave shirt. I've never bought one single piece of any kind of atlanta brave paraphernalia. 99% of all the braves players I could easily say goodbye to, as long as we replaced them with someone else who was equally good, so it's not a stretch for me to say that I don't get caught up with hero worship of ballplayers at all.

It still was a mistake for Smoltz to leave like he did, and it was a mistake for Wren to let it happen like he did.

Smoltz took less money to play here. Smoltz took on different roles to play here. Smoltz played hurt more than most players I've ever seen. He told Wren he could pitch and that should have been enough for Wren to give him a one year guaranteed contract, along with giving him the support that the organization did believe in him. Smoltz isn't some crybaby ballplayer who wears his feelings on his sleeve. If he left like he was done wrong, it was because of the way the braves handled it.

Wren and company blew it and Smoltz did what any player would do that still has an ounce of dignity left would do....he left.

If Smoltz felt he was done dirty by the organization, then I am certain that he was. It doesn't matter that he failed with the red sox. He was owed the opportunity to fail with the braves.

Personally, I still don't think he is done. I think he may try to sign on with another team and give it another shot. But then again, I'd be the last one to ever count him out.


This is a business of winning baseball games and Wren and company owe more to the fans than to a 42 year old John Smoltz.

[Chris_Moderato]

This is a business of winning baseball games and Wren and company owe more to the fans than to a 42 year old John Smoltz.

Yes, but if he truly isn't done, as wordslayer said he believes, than he would help us win ballgames.

[wordslayer©]

This is a business of winning baseball games and Wren and company owe more to the fans than to a 42 year old John Smoltz.

should have sent them that memo two years ago when they were penciling in their right fielder.

[wordslayer©]

Yes, but if he truly isn't done, as wordslayer said he believes, than he would help us win ballgames.

well said. I think Smoltz will know when he is done...not us...not the red sox...not anyone other than him. He knows his body. He knows if he is throwing hard and if he has any movement on his pitches.

He will do whatever he wants to do on HIS terms. Smoltz won't go out there just to embarrass himself. He will only go out there if he believes that he has the goods to make it happen, and if he doesn't, then he will retire.

But like I said, he's got some velocity and he is still Smoltz.......hard for me to bet against that. But then again, I lose all objectivity when talking about him.

[bravos4evr]

I disagree slayer, it can be hard for old jocks to hang 'em up, they tend to think that they can still bring it, but oftentimes it takes the leagues lack of interest to convince them that they are done...

[wordslayer©]

I disagree slayer, it can be hard for old jocks to hang 'em up, they tend to think that they can still bring it, but oftentimes it takes the leagues lack of interest to convince them that they are done...

Valid point. However, there are those types that do tend to hang it up while still having it and being effective, such as Barry Sanders. Usually, I'm not colored too much by bias, but that's not the case this time......this is what I want to think.

[absintheofmalaise]

Smoltz has cleared waivers per Chad Finn. (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/08/report_smoltz_c.html)
The Sox have until Sunday to release him, trade him or send him to the minors. If they do that, they'd like him to restructure his contract since he'd be working out of the pen after Sept 1. He's owed the balance of the money he was signed for.

[Agent-X-]

Just for poo and giggles, fangraphs.com says that Smoltz has been worth $2M this year.

Oddly enough...that's about what the Braves guaranteed him last winter before the BoSox bid over the top of us.

http://www.24-7partypaks.com.au/Sale-Items/Pooh/Winnie-the-pooh-Plate-sale.JPG

[dirwin50]

Smoltz has refused to go to the minors. His Boston career is done.

[Agent-X-]

If I'm John Smoltz and I'd like to see if I can pitch at any capacity with reasonable success, then I fly back to Atlanta and see if I can close out my career with the Braves in the midst of a playoff push in the capacity that I can help them the most.

That happens to be bullpen, and John Smoltz, I have a feeling, is as good as they come. Why not? Can anyone answer me this.

And we could certainly use the insurance as the bullpen has bit us a few times in recent memory.

[Hillbilly]

I think Smoltz doused that bridge with gasoline and launched a whole quiver-full of flaming arrows toward it from his cozy little perch at Fenway. Little did he know, that he's not "The Man" up there like he was down here. He'll always be one of my all-time favorites, and I'd love to see him catch on somewhere and go out on a positive note. I just don't think he left that door back to Atlanta open and it's because he couldn't resist the temptation to run his mouth. I hate to see it end this way.

[Hobbes]

It wouldn't look good for either side to have Smoltz back at this point, so I don't see it happening.

[Agent-X-]

I think you guys are making a valid point, however I think that door is John's to open. What he said was more heat of the moment and doesn't erase a career's worth of good work and loyalty he has shown this team.

Let's just see. If John is willing to let bygons be bygons, and we need another late innings reliever... let's just see if the two sides can work it out for Smoltzy to close his career here. To put this argument into perspective, it would be ridiculous for this team to pass up on a potentially very good reliever right about now over some heated words earlier in the season... especially when you consider who it is we're talking about.

He loves this team like it was his family.

[Lauren T.]

He loves this team like it was his family.
I think using the present tense here is not correct. Love and respect go hand-in-hand in my family, and if you had had heard the radio interviews after the Braves let him go you would know he neither respected our team nor the decisions of the people in charge. He was angry and hateful, and to be honest, I was glad to let him go after the fourth or fifth local interview I heard.

Too many Braves fans are mentally stuck in the past -- expecting us to go on another run of 14, expecting another indomitable Big 3, etc. This isn't the Braves of the 90s, or even the Braves of the first half of this decade.

[Agent-X-]

I understand where you are coming from. I put myself in John's shoes to try to understand how he was feeling. He had hoped to finish an entire career with one team, much like he had probably hoped to live a life having been married to only one woman (yeah, I'm going there). Where did John go after being DFA'd by Boston? Right back to Atlanta to figure things out.

If John were any other ballplayer, I'd see things the way most others do. But John Smoltz is a documented hot head who gets emotional when things don't go his way. Additionally, he is Christian so I expect a certain amount of self-reflection. Could you stay mad at the team you wanted to stay with for your whole career? If you saw an opportunity to close out your career with them in the midst of a playoff run, would you turn it down?

I just don't think John is still angry. He may not respect Wren and may have a different perspective of the organization, but one thing John can't deny is that this team is doing what it can to be very competitive.

[Wahoo]

Well, it looks like Smoltz refused the minor league assignment.

[sdp]

Well, it looks like Smoltz refused the minor league assignment.

And, per Franterry, he refused a bullpen assignment as well. So it appears he's only interested in being a big-league starter.

[KB 34]

He was only willing to be a reliever for the Braves years ago and it looks like nothing changed, except perhaps the same rules apply for everyone now.

[absintheofmalaise]

Except that now, he can't get left handers out. If someone needs a ROOGY, he's your man.

[Agent-X-]

:banghead:

Guys, I think you're right and I'm wrong. I think my bias is blocking my better judgment. It just wouldn't look good for Smoltz to return to the Braves... especially in a relief role.

Oh well. In a perfect world, it would be great to have him in our bullpen right now.:(

[quick]

"During the first 25 pitches of the eight starts Smoltz made for the Red Sox, he limited opponents to a .257 (9-for-35) batting average, a .395 on-base percentage and a .286 slugging percentage. From pitches 26-50, opponents produced a .327 batting average (17-for-52). And from pitches 51-75, they hit .388 (19-for-49) against him. "


http://markbowman.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/08/braves_wont_be_among_the_teams.html

From Mark Bowman's blog.

Here is the answer to the question I posed above about Smoltz's 2009 numbers as he progressed through the game. Smoltz is not so bad for his first 25 pitches. Maybe he could still be a good set up man or closer. Still, could he go strong in back-to-back games? Of course, Wren made it clear he wasn't pursuing John, but based on the numbers above, I bet someone will if John indicates he'd be willing to go to the 'pen....

[Dreamscape]

There isn't a whole lot to gain from those numbers considering the short sample size. Yes, he seems to do better at the beginning of the game, but it would stand to reason that majority of pitchers do better early vs. later. The second time through, hitters can adjust. Smoltz has also had the advantage of the league change and hitters trying to get a feel for him coming back from surgery.

I just see too many variables working in the favor of Smoltz for those numbers to show much of anything. By the way, a .395 OBP is incredibly high at the start of the game.

Not saying he could not be better as a reliever, but I've seen very few numbers to indicate that he would be much better.

[Lauren T.]

John Smoltz is "strongly leaning" toward signing with the St. Louis Cardinals, two major league sources with direct knowledge of his negotiations told ESPN.com Tuesday night.
Source (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4408342)

[Freddy_Ballgame]

Apparently, Smoltz has signed with the Cards. I hear he may get a start this weekend.

[HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN]

already funny enough seeing Smoltzie in another uni, now he won't get his customary #29 it appears as it's worn by Carpenter...

[JanShan12]

He's starting here in St. Louis on Sunday. Would love to go, but I'll be out of town. Not sure how long he'll remain a starter with the Cardinals, but I do know they have sick of starting Mitchell Boggs and Todd Wellemeyer. Smoltz could do poorly and still keep the starting job.

[quick]

Smoltzie had a great outing with the Cards. Apparently, he corrected a few mechanical problems and he's off to the races!!

"SAN DIEGO — John Smoltz had a brilliant debut with the St. Louis Cardinals, striking out a season-high nine — including seven straight — and holding San Diego to three hits over five scoreless innings in a 5-2 victory Sunday.

Smoltz also had a bunt single and scored the first run for the NL Central-leading Cardinals, who retained their eight-game lead over the Chicago Cubs. He didn't walk a batter."

http://www.comcast.net/articles/sports-mlb/20090823/20090823233954680000301/

[luvdembravos]

I’m a big Smoltz fan and wish him well ... but he’s going to have to go longer than 5 innings against a much better team before I’m convinced that he’s turned it around.

[Hobbes]

I’m a big Smoltz fan and wish him well ... but he’s going to have to go longer than 5 innings against a much better team before I’m convinced that he’s turned it around.

True, although being in the NL Central (and not having to face the Cards) is as good a recipe for success as he could hope for.

[Lauren T.]

I got to see about half that game -- Old Man ran hard around the bases. It was quite fun to watch. :D

[JanShan12]

Smoltz was on 101 ESPN radio here in St. Louis this afternoon and gave a great interview. He spoke very well about the Braves and kept referring to them as "we". It was nice.