So should Heyward be brought up in September?

[Devil Wears Prado]

I'm kind of tired of arguing about this since I've been arguing with many members on the FalconsLIFE (official message board of the Atlanta Falcons) but I'll post it here anyways just to hear more intelligent replies and opinions.

Anyways, I'll keep my opinion short.
NO, he shouldn't be called up. Heyward is on a hot streak in the AA, but he still has yet to experience some struggles which I'd prefer to see him experience to see how he deals with it.

Secondly I think bringing him up is not worth the rush. There's no need to rush Heyward in September since it will also start his arbitration and free agency clock. Not sure I'd like for that to happen.

This thread also goes with some (not many though) people who think Freeman should also be called up.

What are your thoughts?

[Rynliquid]

Absolutely he should.

[Dreamscape]

Should definitely not be called up. Sure, if he was on the 40 man, I'd call him up late in September to get his feet wet, but no use in starting his options and/or clock. I don't even think you need to move him up to AAA this year. If the Braves fall out of the race, I can see the positives, but hopefully, that doesn't happen.

[KB 34]

I see no reason to start his clock and option years either. Most likely he would sit on the bench and watch the team anyhow. If he shows over the winter and in spring training that he's ready or close to ready I'd expect him to be handled like Hanson was this season and I don't have a problem with it. He's a potential superstar, you want them on your team as long as possible and should be handled accordingly.

[sdp]

No, no, no. A thousand times no.

Heyward is a once-in-a-generation kind of prospect--you don't just call a guy like that up in September to get your rocks off. You let him finish the year in AA--perhaps he forces his way into AAA--and you let him come into Spring Training vying for a job. Ideally, and I think the Braves have learned, he starts in AAA and ends up in Atlanta by June.

[hoosjon]

MAYBE called up ... to AAA, and only since he IS cruising more and more as he faces better pitching. Freeman, HECK no!

Then next year, treat them both like Hanson ... start 'em off in AAA and see how it goes. I'm not sure I'd start either of them in Atlanta, even with an outstanding Spring. Look at your favorite rookie and mine, "Logan" Schafer.

Take it easy with these guys and savor the impact!

[Andy G.]

Heyward is nothing like Schafer, though. When Schafer was Heyward's age, he was struggling in Rome. Heyward got better from Rome to Myrtle Beach, and is showing a ridiculous display of dominance in Mississippi. I say put him in AAA in August and bring him to the majors when rosters expand. Whether we're out of the race or not, I'd bring him up this year.

I don't know why everybody's so worried about option years. There's no doubt Heyward will be signed to a long term deal way before he ever hits free agency. It's not going to matter if we use an option this year.

[Rynliquid]

You hit on two big reasons why he should be called up this year, but I'll elaborate a little further.

Concerning "protecting" him ala Jordan Schafer et al...what apparently do Braves fans and opposing teams have in common? None of them apparently want to see Jason Heyward playing in Atlanta anytime soon.

Concerning KB's claim that he "would probably just sit on the bench anyways"...if Heyward were promoted right now, he would arguably be the best outfielder we have with the exception (maybe) of McLouth. Can anyone argue that either Diaz, Gandy, Church, and I'll throw Infante in here, are more than marginally better than Heyward would be at this point? Are we that far away we can't remember the impact less-talented players like Francoeur and McCann had coming straight from AA? Nevermind the recent successes of similarly ranked players like Ryan Braun, Grady Sizemore, Evan Longoria, and others had when promoted? I'll elaborate a little further on this below. And maybe I'm totally missing the logic here, (hint: I'm not) but in what part of "want them on your team as long as possible" involves leaving him on the farm to hit against Kei Igawa for an extra two months?

I think there's a point where people just baby their prospects way too much - usually when there is an impending trade and people get "what if we just traded away the next Smoltz"-itis or "what if we rush him and he turns into another Francoeur"-itis. Kemp and Wren abide by the mantra "a prospect will tell us when he's ready" ... what jumps out at you that he needs more seasoning at AA? Is it the almost unheard of agreement between scouts and statisticians that he's as close to a sure thing as there can be? Is it Baseball America's ranking of him as the #1 prospect in baseball, following the likes of Josh Beckett, Alex Rodriguez, Chipper Jones, Steve Avery, Andruw Jones, Joe Mauer, Mark Teixera, J.D. Drew, et al - which say what you will about prospects being prospects, but Baseball America has a sterling reputation for their top 10 prospects making a significant impact at the major league level. Is it the fact that not only has he succeeded at every level of the minors he's been at, but actually improved each time? Is it the fact that he's exceedingly mature for his age, is responsible enough to have kept himself free of any type of trouble, and already shown himself to be able to handle the media with aplomb?

Concerning his service clock being started early...who gives a flying f--k? We're arguing against a few hundred thousand dollars being spent or the remote possibility he's going to be so bad in a few years we don't want to forfeit the flexibility of being able to send him down to work on stuff? So we "promote" one of the best prospects of the last ten years to AAA so he can show us how AAA in September is filled with AA callups and people who weren't good enough to be called up to a major league September roster? We do this knowing full well that if he isn't on the club out of ST he will be by the summer of 2010? In all likelihood, this is the guy who will supplant Chipper Jones as the face of the franchise for years to come - what EXACTLY does NOT promoting him in September prove?

I won't be upset either way - it's splitting hairs whether he's up in September or April - but it is your responsibility as a GM to put your best team on the field at all times. It would be very irresponsible leaving Heyward in the minors much longer.

[Dreamscape]

It might be the best outfielder next to McLouth on the team, but I honestly can't see Bobby treating him like he is. Not if the Braves are in a race for a playoff spot. He will ride the pine, getting a few at-bats of little significance in games that are already decided. I just don't see the purpose of getting him up early for that.

I'd rather send him to AAA, maybe late this year, maybe in April. Maybe that doesn't seem worthwhile, but I firmly believe hitters benefit from seeing the crappy AAAA pitchers and their array of junk pitches. These type of pitches might be new to them and can better prepare them for the next level.

I want to see him in AAA and master hitting AAA pitching before I'm going to consider promoting Heyward. Not that I don't love Heyward and when I saw him with the Pelicans, he seemed a man amongst boys. But, like I said, the theory I have is that hitters benefit from Kei Igawa. And Aaron Small. And other AAAA pitchers who may not have major league stuff, but throw enough junk to keep overly aggressive young hitters off balance.

[bmitm76]

It might be the best outfielder next to McLouth on the team, but I honestly can't see Bobby treating him like he is. Not if the Braves are in a race for a playoff spot. He will ride the pine, getting a few at-bats of little significance in games that are already decided. I just don't see the purpose of getting him up early for that.

I'd rather send him to AAA, maybe late this year, maybe in April. Maybe that doesn't seem worthwhile, but I firmly believe hitters benefit from seeing the crappy AAAA pitchers and their array of junk pitches. These type of pitches might be new to them and can better prepare them for the next level.

I want to see him in AAA and master hitting AAA pitching before I'm going to consider promoting Heyward. Not that I don't love Heyward and when I saw him with the Pelicans, he seemed a man amongst boys. But, like I said, the theory I have is that hitters benefit from Kei Igawa. And Aaron Small. And other AAAA pitchers who may not have major league stuff, but throw enough junk to keep overly aggressive young hitters off balance.

Then promote him up to AAA now. Today. The guy is crushing the ball at AA. Absolutely dominating. Let him play in AAA for a month and see 25 Aaron Smalls. When Bobby sees a player who is truly what he considers a special talent he lets them play. Look at how he treated Francouer, Jurrjens, Furcal, Andruw Jones. I think Andruw is the best comparision. THe kid was supposed to be a monster same as Heyward. Bobby thought Schafer was our best center fielder and gave him the job outright. I know that there is this theory that Bobby Cox hates to play young players and loves veterans. But Bobby Cox will put uber talented young players out on the field everyday. He has a track record of doing so with the best of them.

[Andy G.]

I think Bobby would start him the first day he was on the team(like he always does). I mean, the veteran that Bobby has to fall back on is Ryan Church. Bobby will gladly give Heyward the chance to outshine Church.

Why even wait until September, really? For all we know Wren was planning on bringing Heyward to Atlanta at some point this summer when he made the Francoeur trade.

[Lauren T.]

I was watching last night's G-Braves game (Josh Caray is so much more tolerable than his half-brother Chip), and either Josh or BJ mentioned the AAA season ends at Labor Day. With only six weeks of AAA play left in their season, I wouldn't mind seeing Jason finish the season in AA and start next season in AAA, with a September (or sooner) callup next year. This year? No. We don't need him, and as others have said, he'd ride the pine and get a pinch-hit appearance here and there.

[luvdembravos]

With only six weeks of AAA play left in their season, I wouldn't mind seeing Jason finish the season in AA and start next season in AAA, with a September (or sooner) callup next year. This year? No. We don't need him, and as others have said, he'd ride the pine and get a pinch-hit appearance here and there.

I agree. Next September, he will have just turned 21. There's no need to rush him...let him master AAA pitching before calling him up to ATL.

[Middle Man]

The AA and AAA seasons end in early September. I'm confident he'd benefit from a September call-up even if he didn't see a lot of action in Atlanta. What's he gonna do otherwise, sit at home and play video games?

I agree with Gilley that the option years argument is a red herring issue in this instance. If the Braves have a lick of sense, they'll do what they have to do to lock him up to a long-term deal sooner rather than later. Whatever marginal economic benefit is gained from trying to stretch him out and pay him as little money as possible for as many years as possible is outweighed by the likelyhood that you will damage your relationship with him and fail to sign him to a long-term deal - not mention the fact that he might actually help us win games - NOW!

[Lauren T.]

In case anyone is curious, he's represented by the same agency as John Smoltz, Jeff Francoeur, and Mark DeRosa.

[Middle Man]

In case anyone is curious, he's represented by the same agency as John Smoltz, Jeff Francoeur, and Mark DeRosa.

Hmmm, maybe they don't like the Braves much? :) At least it's not Furcal's agency or Boras.

Do they represent anyone who's currently on the Braves' roster?

[Lauren T.]

Just Bobby. :)

The client list on their website is a "partial client list", and Heyward is not listed. However, I was told by a former employee of the agency that they represent Heyward, and she told me that while she still worked there. ;)

[Andy G.]

Here are Heyward's updated stats after going 3-5 last night. If you were to send an average major leaguer to AA, they wouldn't hit as well as Heyward is hitting. It's only 17 games, but this is insane.

G AB H R RBI HR 2B 3B BB SO avg OBP SLG OPS
17 60 25 13 13 2 9 2 11 4 .417 .504 .733 1.240

[HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN]

I'm with KB and others...You keep him down for all of 09 with the slim chance you promote him to AAA for a few weeks at season's end....Send him to the AFL like Hanson and then give him a legit shot in the spring....If we wins the job great, otherwise send him down to Gwinnett or Mississippi and let him come up in June after he loses super two status and be the impact bat for the last 3 1/2 months of the season...but I think it's becoming more and more obvious that this guy is going to live up to the pre-draft hype and maybe go beyond it...

[hoosjon]

I'm with KB and others...You keep him down for all of 09 with the slim chance you promote him to AAA for a few weeks at season's end....Send him to the AFL like Hanson and then give him a legit shot in the spring....If we wins the job great, otherwise send him down to Gwinnett or Mississippi and let him come up in June after he loses super two status and be the impact bat for the last 3 1/2 months of the season...but I think it's becoming more and more obvious that this guy is going to live up to the pre-draft hype and maybe go beyond it...

This is a GREAT idea ... I like giving him the fall to completely convince ... I hear that he's crushing the ball and I hear that he just gets better, every time he gets promoted, but I really don't feel that Bobby would have him starting this year. Now, next year? Give him the chance to make the change a little more naturally.

I DO hope they don't go with that knee-jerk "pull him up because we made a trade kind of thing" ... we DO seem to do that or a stupid charity signing for someone who's given us many good years (for millions and millions of good dollars every year that they gave us). I just want him to be the best Brave 5 years from now ... not a swing and a miss Met cleanup hitter.

[Dreamscape]

Gilley, you make a very convincing argument. I'm still not so sure he will get the playing time, though. Now, he's a much more complete hitter than Failcoeur ever was. He's heard of a walk, doesn't think it's a bad idea, and seems to understand OBP might be a little important.

If he was promoted, though, where is the playing time? Church/Diaz both seem to have at least some outlook of a future for this organization. Ganderson's been hitting the ball pretty well.

I guess I only see the value of his promotion if Bobby can get him the at-bats. Right now, with the way the Braves are hitting, I doubt Cox would change up things. It's true, when pressed, the veteran-lover will go to the young guns, but right now, he will not be pressed to do that. It's not like Raul Mondesi and Brian Jordan are the best options.

[wordslayer©]

I can see the argument for both sides.

If it were up to me, I'd call him up. I felt the same way about Hanson. If you have any talent that can help you win, then it's stupid not to put them on your ball club.

I think triple A is a lot tougher to hit at than double A, but good grief....this is, to me, just like them lollygaggling with Hanson. Everyone and their brother knew that he was ready to pitch and knew that he could have helped this club earlier, but nooooooooooooo,,,,we had to send him to triple A, when we needed his a$$ in april and May.

Bring him up and give him some at bats. So what if he doesn't do well? Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, and a bunch of others struggled in their first few at bats, but they seemed to bounce out of it okay.

He could help us win. It's not going to kill him if he struggles. Bring him up and give him some at bats.

[KB 34]

I have to admit I'm not as familar as I need to be with arbitration years, free agent years, and such, but my assumption is the Braves benefit if they treat Heyward just as they did Hanson over the past year.

Forget about the other reasons for a second, the bottom line is if Heyward becomes a fraction of the player he might become he's going to cost a fortune to retain. That isn't something to take lightly because this isn't 1996 and the Braves don't have one of the top payrolls. They have a decent payroll but I believe it's around #10 opposed to #2 or so. The way I look at it is Heyward in 6 years is a lot more valuable to the Braves than Heyward right now. He'd be slightly better than other options opposed to levels above the other options. As far as winning now that would be nice, but it's also about winning later as well. I cannot see Heyward being the huge distinction between good and bad now that he could be later. We're not talking about someone who might or might not develop, we're talking about a special talent who gets special treatment not a lot of prospects do, with him being the second I can remember following Hanson.

[HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN]

also add that if the Braves are going to call up him up this year then it better be in August where he has 6-8 weeks to help us get in the playoffs, there's no since to just give him 4 weeks as mostly part time player when we might be in contention...and if he was called up in August he better be starting in RF full time...

[Andy G.]

You guys all make good points. As slayer said, I can see the argument for both sides. Keep in mind, though, that Wren said some things in the offseason about not signing a free agent outfielder because he didn't want to block Heyward. He certainly made it sound as if he expected Heyward to be on the fast track.

So, right or wrong, the odds that he'll be called up this summer might be higher than most people realize.

He went 2-4 and hit another double last night, btw.

[jamminHANES]

If you bring him up now he gets enough service time to lose his super two status this season. If they feel he can help the major league ball club out and help them get a push to the majors then do it. If we have the ability to trade Kotchman for relief help we can insert Heyward at 1B and improve our offense with a great young in house option.

[Devil Wears Prado]

What the people in the other thread where I'm talking about this are saying that Heyward should be called up. They're comparing him to McCann, Pujols, and some of them are saying Miguel Cabrera. What I told them was that those three people were called up mid-season, not late-season. And there's absolutely no point in bringing Heyward up this late in the season when he's just going to see a few at-bats and sit the bench.

They call me crazy for taking the arbitration / FA clock seriously because they are so sure that Heyward is a real deal (as am I, but I just want to play it as safe as possible with a superstar prospect like J-Heyward).

[4maddux_cy's]

As long as we are winning I really dont see a need to bring him up. Now if someone gets hurt or something then maybe. I could see him being brought up in that case. I just wouldnt wanna see him brought up if he isnt going to get the ab's.

[Dreamscape]

Comparison between Mike Stanton and Jason Heyward.

No, not that Mike Stanton. The young Marlins outfield prospect. The general consensus (http://www.minorleagueball.com/2009/7/24/961747/prospect-smackdown-jason-heyward) is that Heyward might be the most complete minor leaguer in the game right now.

[FrankEC]

Personally, I think if the kid is ready and he can improve the team, you bring him up. It is impossible to know what is going to happen with this kid 5-6 years from now. To keep him down just to maybe gain an extra year of below market price production 5-6 years from now seems a little short sighted to me. We could have a new owner by then who won't impose the payroll limitations that Liberty Media does. Shoot, he could wake up from a bad dream about spiders and fall through a glass table and never play again. We could even have a new young stud outfield prospect ready to step in and take his place by 2014. My point is you have to go with what you know, and if the kid is ready now, bring him up.

The only question then, is he ready and can he improve the team? I guess we'll have to leave that for the scouts to decide. To my untrained eye, though, he looks as close to ready as any prospect I've seen in a long time and there is no doubt he could help this team. I say bring him up.

[Middle Man]

Personally, I think if the kid is ready and he can improve the team, you bring him up. It is impossible to know what is going to happen with this kid 5-6 years from now. To keep him down just to maybe gain an extra year of below market price production 5-6 years from now seems a little short sighted to me. .............

Yeah, I agree. I think the Francoeur misfortune has made Braves fans a bit gun shy. Calling up McCann a bit ahead of schedule worked out pretty well though, right?

[Lauren T.]

Yeah, I agree. I think the Francoeur misfortune has made Braves fans a bit gun shy. Calling up McCann a bit ahead of schedule worked out pretty well though, right?
Mac worked out, but how many Baby Braves were there? 14? And how many of them are on Mac's level? None!

He's an exception. A cute, cuddly exception.

[Middle Man]

Mac worked out, but how many Baby Braves were there? 14? And how many of them are on Mac's level? None!

He's an exception. A cute, cuddly exception.

You're right, but McCann is an exception - period. You could leave most guys in the minors for 20 years and they would never be as good as Brian. But I think people need to keep an open mind regarding why he's an exception and what factors make him such a good hitter. It seems like scouts say a lot of the same sort of things about Heyward that they say about McCann - a smart hitter, no holes in swing, an advanced approach at the plate, good pitch recognition, etc.

[jamminHANES]

If McCann is an exception then I don't know what else to call Heyward. He's the best player in the minor leagues at this point in time. He's Darryl Strawberry with a higher batting average and no cocaine. I don't necessarily think we need to bring him up right now though. We can call him up if the right field platoon starts failing or if Anderson gets injured. Right now we actually don't need Heyward, but that could change very quickly.

[Lauren T.]

Mac was called up in his fourth season of professional baseball. Heyward is only in his third season. I still think this year is too soon, but next year will be fine.

[jamminHANES]

Mac was called up in his fourth season of professional baseball. Heyward is only in his third season. I still think this year is too soon, but next year will be fine.

Mac shouldn't be the only test subject though. Andruw went through a similar progression as Heyward has and he ended up successful despite being only 19 and in his 3rd professional year. There are plenty of ways it can go but we should only call him up if we need him and if we don't, we should be patient.

[Middle Man]

Mac was called up in his fourth season of professional baseball. Heyward is only in his third season. I still think this year is too soon, but next year will be fine.

You're so transparent, I can see right through you. You're worried that Heyward will take the spotlight off of McCann. :D ;)

[Andy G.]

McCann wasn't the beast that Heyward is in the minors. Almost nobody is. He's not somebody that you can compare to a lot of players.

If he's ready it's ok to call him up. If he's not ready then it's not ok to call him up. I think that he's at least much closer to being ready for the majors than most people realize. It's not a matter of anybody being impatient. Fans just want their prospects to be babied.

Freddie Freeman is 19 and in AA as well. He's got a .847 OPS. That is awesome, but nobody is talking about him being called up. Heyward does not need to be handled the way 99.9% of minor players are handled. It's like Rynliquid said, it's unheard of how many scouts and statistician agree that Heyward is the real deal. Just because he's 19 doesn't mean that he's mature 'for a 19 year old'. He might just be mature of enough, physically and mentally, to handle the jump to the major leagues right now. He just gets better every time he's promoted, and what he's done in AA is absolutely sick. 1.200 OPS? Ridiculous.

[Lauren T.]

You're so transparent, I can see right through you. You're worried that Heyward will take the spotlight off of McCann. :D ;)
Heyward is delicious in his own way. I'm allowed to like chocolate AND vanilla! :D :thumbsup:

[jamminHANES]

Everyone handles promotions differently. Just look at Garret Jones for instance. The guy has never posted an OPS over .900 at any level and currently is sitting 1.140 in the majors with 10 homers in 88 at bats. You have to look past the initial statistics and see how they fair about 150+ at bats at each level. If they can make the adjustments necessary then they are ready and can move up.

[BraveFan]

As I recall the last time the Braves brought up a 19 year old outfielder in the same year he started in A ball it worked out pretty well :)

[Andy G.]

Heyward went 3-3 with a walk last night. His average is up to .443 now.

[wordslayer©]

Heyward went 3-3 with a walk last night. His average is up to .443 now.

LOL....I'm sure there must be some logic to keeping him there, but I have no idea what it must be. They should just bring him up, commit to some at bats with him, and then just see how he performs. This is totally one of those no risk/high reward situations.

[Hillbilly]

Heyward went 3-3 with a walk last night. His average is up to .443 now.


That was game 2 of a double header. He went 1-3 with a 2-run homer in the first game. His OBP/SLG/OPS is .524/.771/1.295 at the AA level.

[Andy G.]

That was game 2 of a double header. He went 1-3 with a 2-run homer in the first game. His OBP/SLG/OPS is .524/.771/1.295 at the AA level.
Awesome. Didn't realize that.

[FrankEC]

That was game 2 of a double header. He went 1-3 with a 2-run homer in the first game. His OBP/SLG/OPS is .524/.771/1.295 at the AA level.

I can't remember the last time I saw an OBP above .500 for anyone at any level. That is just insane. Shoot, David Ross is the only guy on our team with a SLG% as high as Heyward's OBP%. :eek:

[The Rap]

I'm all for bringing him up now as long as he has a regular job in either rf or lf. Not as a sub with a sporadic start. It is right to view Andruw as the perfect example because we all remember him hiting 2 homers in a world series game and he was just 19 years old. Bobby will always let the kids shine as as long as they shine because I think he looks at those who are truly special with unusual admiration as he was a mediocrity as a player.

[wordslayer©]

I'm all for bringing him up now as long as he has a regular job in either rf or lf. Not as a sub with a sporadic start. It is right to view Andruw as the perfect example because we all remember him hiting 2 homers in a world series game and he was just 19 years old. Bobby will always let the kids shine as as long as they shine because I think he looks at those who are truly special with unusual admiration as he was a mediocrity as a player.

We all assume that Andruw was 19, but there are many people who felt that he was older than that. Some say quite a bit older, and if you look at his sudden fall, they may be right.

[CharlotteBrave]

Play it like the Orioles did with Weiters... If we're making a run in Sept, bring him up, but then have him start in AAA next season.

Also; wasn't Miguel Cabrera 19 when he had his coming out party for the Marlins?

[Devil Wears Prado]

Heyward struck out twice today to finish the game off 0-for-4. He flied out and popped out. He looked to have struggled against Bray's breaking / secondary pitches.

This performance by Heyward kind of re-assures me that he is human. You want your prospects to struggle (not too much though) in the minors to see how they work out of their slumps. This is Heyward's first bad game in AA, and I'm curious to see how he bounces back next game.

You know what they say, they have their good and their bad games!

[FrankEC]

Frank Wren is traveling with the Mississippi Braves for a couple of days. Let the speculation begin. I'm saying Heyward is in RF for the start of the Philly series on the 14th.

Clarion Ledger article (http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20090806/COL0504/908060348/1287/SPORTS)

[BigWorm]

Screw it. Bring him on up here.

[IkeWagner]

I don't come down on one side or the other here...I feel that I'd have to watch him play, in person, for about a dozen games before I could possibly make a decision. The numbers, impressive though they are, are certainly aren't enough to go on.

[Andy G.]

"We're always evaluating, not only what is best for our big club, but what is best for the individual player," Wren said. "Jason has done a very good job here. My philosophy has been that as players progress through your system, they'll always let you know when they are ready for a promotion."

Even at 19?

"We've had players, such as Andruw Jones and Rafael Furcal, who have made the jump and been successful at the big league level at that age before," Wren said. "Some players can handle it and be successful at a younger age than others."

Kemp and Wren abide by the mantra "a prospect will tell us when he's ready"...

Good call man. I can't wait to see him in the bigs.

[Dreamscape]

Did Schafer tell the Braves he was ready?

I'm not too against Heyward getting promoted, but I will have extremely low expectations if he gets the call.

[Andy G.]

Did Schafer tell the Braves he was ready?

I'm not too against Heyward getting promoted, but I will have extremely low expectations if he gets the call.
Point taken, but you know that what happened with Schafer has nothing to do with Heyward.

I won't have high expectations if/when Heyward is promoted, but I won't have low expectations either. Prospects don't usually have success immediately after being promoted to the majors, but Heyward is not a usual prospect.

[Dreamscape]

He's not, but he is still 19. True, he can be Miguel Cabrera and again, you are right that just because Schafer proved himself to be not read doesn't mean Heyward would do the same. He is the best prospect in the minors, not the 50th best or whatever Schafer would have been classified as. But nevertheless, I'm just wary (or gunshy) or bringing Heyward up now. I fully admit he could probably do the job and a better one in the outfield. But it's a chance I don't think the Braves need to take right now.

I assume if he's brought up, Norton gets the boot (and well deserved).

[KB 34]

Hopefully Norton gets the boot anyhow when Infante comes back. My position remains the same on Heyward, play it really safe and go for the future when the chances of him being a difference maker are greatest. I see plenty Heyward could lose from this method but from a Braves perspective the longer the team can wait before dealing with Yankee offers for him the better.

[warefreak]

I'm just with the guys that think

1. we don't need him now (our OF is doing fine for once this year!) and
2. If he's as good as everybody here thinks, we need to make dang sure the arbitration clock and the free agency clock starts later than sooner. The Braves have a very good foundation for the next few years with Freeman, Prado, Escobar, Mccann, Heyward, Cody Johnson... not to mention our pitchers. The chances of signing Heyward long term when you're talking about the Braves is slim to none, especially with who his agent is (remember when we tried to sign Francouer long term, he told us to take a hike!)

[KB 34]

I could care less who Heyward has for an agent because if he develops to his full potential we're talking about a $20 million per year contract in 2009 dollars, and it will be nearly impossible for the Braves to resign him even with a hometown discount, say $2 million per season which would be more than generous on his part. As far as the other pieces of the puzzle go I'm not convinced the Braves will or won't be able to compete as so much rests on how 40% of the payroll in Lowe, Chipper, and Kawakami perform and I could see them being solid or a train wreck that leaves the Braves a 70 win team. Besides that a lot of the prospects will be hyped up and traded because the Braves see them as probable busts.

[warefreak]

The teams like the Braves, Rays, A's, etc are able to sign young studs long term, however they have to do it before they reach their potential... a perfect example is Longoria for the Rays. I think the Rays signed him long term within a month of bringing him up. However, the players agent plays into that and won't even discuss a long term deal. I have always had a grudge against Francouer because of that... it worked out for the Braves this time but... who knows, it's a big gamble for both parties. When I found out the agent though my hopes dimmed that a long term deal could be done early in his career, which strengthens the argument to wait to bring him up.

[BigWorm]

When Infante comes back Diory is the obvious choice to be demoted.....not Greg Norton.

[Devil Wears Prado]

Norton sucks. Sucks bad... in my MLB 09 franchise, I demoted him to AAA and he's hitting .096 in about three weeks... he sucks so bad even his video game player sucks! SMH

[sdp]

Here's what I think the Braves should do: promote Heyward immediately to Gwinnett. If he tears the baseball up there, call him up in September.

[HomerTheBrave]

Maybe he's another Andruw type player and ends up hitting 2 homers against Sabathia in game 2 of the WS...

what......why not?

[Gman]

The more I look at the OF the more I say "yes bring him up". The more I look at Alex Gordon the more I say "no not yet".

I'll be interested to see if he gets a call up on or before 8/31 just so he could be eligible for the post season should he become a difference maker in his September opportunities. I'm not expecting them to do it. I think bringing up Gorecki over Heyward was pretty much a statement that we won't see him until after the AA or AAA season ends if at all.

[Devil Wears Prado]

I will bump this topic. I want to know what you guys think now that it's September and he wasn't called up. Many people are quick to say that Heyward was not called up because of a minor setback he suffered because of an injury. Although he did suffer an injury, I'm still telling those people (most of them happen to be the same people who wanted Heyward up ASAP) that we simply did not need him - with the good platoon of Diaz/Church and the solid contribution from Garret Anderson, the Braves really had no reason to bring Heyward up and rush him.

Now I think he will not be up by April either. I hope to keep the Diaz/Church platoon next season and hopefully find a decent batter to replace Garret and to hold the fort until Heyward is ready to take over in June/July. Regardless of how Heyward does from here on out, I don't believe he will be up.

What about you guys?

[KB 34]

With the reports about how good Heyward his development and future with the team is more important than who plays over him before June 1. Put Bragg out there for all I care if that's what it takes to look to the future with Heward.

[Middle Man]

Keeping Heyward down in Gwinnett for 2 1/2 months makes a lot of sense ... if we're the Nats or the Pirates or the Royals. On the other hand, if we think we might have shot at the playoffs in 2010 - and Heyward has proven that he's ready - it makes no good sense to keep him down.

Here are some advantages to keeping JH down for 2 or 3 months:

1. The Braves delay arbitration for a year, thereby saving money at some point down the road - probably. Will this make the Braves a better team "at some point down the road?" It's impossible to say. What if the team sucks during Jason's "bonus" year? Then what have the Braves accomplished? Not much. Maybe You can argue that Jason kept us from sucking quite so much.

2. ??? Someone help me out - I'm drawing a blank.

Here are some disadvantages to keeping JH down:

1. The Braves won't be as good for the first 2 or 3 months of the season. How big a difference does this make? No one knows. But if he would have made the Braves 2 wins better and we lose the wildcard by 1 or 2 games, then I would say that's a pretty big difference.

2. In the short term, the Braves will likely lose money by keeping him down. They have to pay someone to play RF. That person, or the temp #4 OFer, will likely make more money than JH in 2010. The Braves will also likely have slightly lower attendance and sell fewer tee shirts for the first 2 or 3 months of the season.

3. The Braves run the risk of creating ill will with the "face" of its franchise. Most people don't like getting jerked around. There's no way to know if it might hurt the Braves' chances of signing JH to a long term deal at some point down the road, but it can't possibly help.

[Lauren T.]

When I saw him play on Labor Day in Gwinnett, he was clearly the star of the team. I don't really care when he gets called up, because he definitely will. I trust the Braves management to make the best decision for the team.

[Middle Man]

When I saw him play on Labor Day in Gwinnett, he was clearly the star of the team. I don't really care when he gets called up, because he definitely will. I trust the Braves management to make the best decision for the team.

But I want them to make the best decision .... for ME!! Well, me and Jason. We're in agreement on this. :D

Seriously, I would amendment your statement above to say that I trust the Braves management to make what they feel is the best decision for the organization, not the team or the individual members thereof.

I want the Braves management to do whatever they can to help the Braves make the playoffs in 2010 without jeopardizing the long-term health of the organization. I don't think this is precisely the goal of Braves management.

[The Rap]

If he shines in the AFL then I give him a full shot at RF right from the get-go. He is now considered the #1 prospect in the game and plays a position we need filled. So what to do with him is somewhat obvious and we should be paying attention to other positions like the BP and first base.

[Hobbes]

I have no problem with bringing him up. But if that is the plan, then I hope the Braves don't feel they don't still need to go get another bat for the offense, because they do.

[Andy G.]

...With the saturated outfielder market and only 1 outfield slot to fill, what makes anyone think Heyward will be treated any differently? Just my thoughts, anyhow...
The situations are different. We had good starting pitching without Hanson. That was not a position of weakness for our team. You can't assume that this was not a huge part of the Braves decision to leave him in AAA.

With Heyward, even if we do have "only one outfield spot to fill", our lineup has a serious power shortage. If Heyward is ready, his presence could be huge for our lineup.

Libid21, I can't speak for whoever you've had this debate with outside of this forum, but asking for Heyward to be called up is not the same as asking the Braves to "rush" him. If he's ready, and it looks like he probably will be, I want the Braves to put him on the team out of spring training.

[Andy G.]

The only way the situations are similar is if the Braves have plenty of offense, and more importantly power, coming out of spring training. That means they sign or trade for a first baseman AND an outfielder with a big bat.

You can't say that a team has to go into an offseason without counting on a rookie to be a huge part of their success, then say that whether or not they want him to spend some more time in AAA is based on the state of the roster at the beginning of the offseason.

Wren addressed the starting rotation knowing that the wise thing to do was to not count on Tommy Hanson to be a big part of it. He ended up getting three good starting pitchers that had spots in the rotation before spring training even began. That's why Hanson didn't make the team right away. Together, the pitchers we acquired and the off-the-field financial reasons made the Braves want to hold off on starting Hanson's arbitration clock.

It is not likely that we'll be in the same situation with Heyward. If we are, then we'll have the best team in baseball. If Jason Heyward's bat(again, assuming he's ready for the major leagues) is not a big enough upgrade over our other options to put him in Atlanta at the start of the season, then we'll have to be the favorites to come out of the National League in 2010.

[Andy G.]

I understand now what you're saying. The situation with Jason Heyward is very similar to where the Braves were with Hanson at this time last year.

Saying it was wise not to rely on Hanson even though he was ready last year when we desperately needed good starting pitchers contradicts saying that we need to rely on Heyward if he's ready when we desperately need offense next season.
That's not what I'm saying, though. I could have been more clear. I think Wren should try to fix every hole on the team without thinking of Heyward as a solution to the vacancy in right field, but I don't think he'll be able to do that. He has to address first base. We have no options right now. With Laroche being a free agent, our only option to play first base is Martin Prado, and he's our second baseman. Then there's the bullpen, which will have to be addressed as well with Gonzo and Soriano being free agents. Even if one stays and the other leaves, we'll have to find a really good pitcher to pitch in the late innings. Wren will undoubtedly be looking to add to the depth of the bullpen this offseason. It will be very difficult to do that if we have fewer late inning relievers than we did last year.

We need offense badly...are we to risk rookie struggles to begin the season when our next best internal options are Gregor Blanco, Reid Gorecki and Brandon Jones? I'd hope not. Bring in a veteran bat for a year. Trade the said veteran bat at the deadline for spare bullpen parts (which I have a feeling we'll desperately need if two relievers aren't brought in somehow) and promote Heyward then.
Will Wren have the money to sign that player after addressing first base and the bullpen? Besides that, when will that veteran be brought in? Garret Anderson was signed after spring training had already started. Whoever this veteran is, when it comes time for Frank Wren to offer the contract and bring him to Atlanta, it should already be obvious that Jason Heyward is the better option. The pitchers we brought in to keep Hanson in AAA were not one-year-only, journeyman types of players. Xavier Nady or whoever else will be looking for a job when spring training roles around will not give us more than Jason Heyward will, IMO.

[Andy G.]

Hey, I only knew how good of a fit Xavier Nady was because you'd mentioned it in the past. I'm about to read your newest blog entry now.

To be honest, I don't know if I believe Heyward will start the year in Atlanta or if I just want to believe it because I want to watch him so badly. There's no telling how things will play out, and if Wren does what he wants to do this offseason, Heyward will probably get the Tommy Hanson treatment.

[warefreak]

You all have to see that comparing Heyward with Hanson is similar yet different.

1. We all knew Hanson was ready last year around this time. He proved it by completely humiliating the best prospects in the game. Nonetheless, Wren went out and got 3 new pitchers anyways (and resigning Glaving) leaving no spot for Hanson in the rotation. He intentionally did this so that he could leave Hanson down there until the magical arbitration date passed.

2a. If he goes out and gets a good outfielder this season... he's going to be doing exactly the same thing to Heyward.

2b. If he doesn't he won't be doing this to Heyward and will be giving him a shot out of spring training.

So IMO we can't compare the two until we know what Wren is focused on during the offseason. I hope that he ignores the outfielders, leaves CF McLouth, LF Diaz/church, and RF Heyward as the OF in mind and focuses on 1b and bullpen. But I doubt he will and I think he'll give the Hanson treatment to Heyward and will go for Bay, Holliday, Vlad, etc.

I do like the point mentioned above. Should we spend money now or later because if we don't bring Heyward up now we'll be spending an extra 4-5 million dollars (probably) to pay a free agent OF. Whose to say that isn't going to be the cost of his first arbitration year and in that case it didn't cost us anything extra except for better graces with Heyward?

[The Rap]

To me a key question is what to with LaRoche? he's a free agent who I am sure would want to stay because where is he going to go and play as much? My greatest fear is re-signing him and then having to go through his mediocre to awful first half of the season next year. The player I would want to put into our outfield is Hunter Pence.