2009 NFL Thread

[Andy G.]

Not that I'm already thinking about football or anything, especially with the Braves winning a lot of games recently, but I thought we needed a new NFL Thread.

I'll start the conversation off with the Falcons. I'm looking forward to watching this offense in '09. Matt Ryan, in his second year, should be very good. Michael Turner and Roddy White are both Pro Bowl players. We added the best tight end of all time, Tony Gonzalez, and our mostly young offensive line should be better even next year.

The defense, though, is one of the youngest in the NFL. The first round pick, DT Peria Jerrey, isn't much of a question mark. He should be really good. The second round pick, William Moore, is intriguing. He could have been a top ten pick two years ago, but he went back to school, played through injuries and fell to the bottom of the second round. A lot of people believe he's still the player that would have been picked so high a couple years ago. I can't wait to see what happens. I'm also looking forward to seeing Sidburry, the freakishly talented defensive end out of Richmond. The Falcons defense last year gave up a ton of yards, but limited points pretty well. They're really well coached. They'll be young, but they'll also be fast, athletic, and disciplined. It'll probably be a few years before we can start thinking Super Bowl, but at least we know that they're going in the right direction. It's fun to be a Falcons fan right now.

[bravestud]

We need to find a second pass rusher to complement Abraham. That would really ease things on our young secondary. Chauncey Davis really came on at the end of last year, and I like Sidburry as well. He seems like he could be a terror as a third-down specialist. Jamaal Anderson is really solid against the run, he just can't seem to get into the backfield. I'd like to see us experiment with him in the interior of the line.

But, yeah, our offense is going to be fun to watch. I think we have the most weapons of any team in football.

[hoosjon]

To start off, I'm a fan of da Bears and I've been trying the last few years to like the local boys up here, the Washington Redskins.

What do y'all think of the Bears' "addition" at quarterback? I've read a lot about how any upgrade is good, but also that with no real WR and a fading running game, that QB was the LAST place they'd want to give up picks for.

Was it a trade that hurt both sides, helped both sides, or did it actually favor Denver or Chicago?

My two cents? I feel like Cutler is a HUGE trade up on Kyle Orton, but was it worth the pick?

[Agent-X-]

All I know is, I'm looking forward to the season opener Dolphins/Falcons game. We're going to see how that Falcons defense keeps them in the game.

[Wahoo]

To start off, I'm a fan of da Bears and I've been trying the last few years to like the local boys up here, the Washington Redskins.

What do y'all think of the Bears' "addition" at quarterback? I've read a lot about how any upgrade is good, but also that with no real WR and a fading running game, that QB was the LAST place they'd want to give up picks for.

Was it a trade that hurt both sides, helped both sides, or did it actually favor Denver or Chicago?

My two cents? I feel like Cutler is a HUGE trade up on Kyle Orton, but was it worth the pick?

First of all, that's your first mistake. The Redskins blow. Cheering for them is a sure recipe for disappointment.

Cutler is a nice addition for the Bears, but he won't make a difference if their offensive line doesn't improve.

[JanShan12]

As many of you know, I'm a huge Cowboys fan... have been since I was a little kid. Grew up watching Emmitt, Troy, and Michael... lived through the forgettable years that followed... and remain a huge fan of Tony, Jason, Marion, and my new favorite, Felix.

Anyway, a friend of mine (who is a big Kansas City Chiefs fan) invited me to go to a game in Kansas City when the Cowboys come to town. I can't decide what I want to do. I've never seen a professional football game in person and would LOVE to see my Cowboys play after all these years. But in Kansas City? I hear it's not the nicest place to be in enemy colors and we all know the Cowboys are either loved or hated... no in between.

What do you think? Would it be worth the annoying fans and constant criticism?

I was in Atlanta 3 years ago when the Red Sox came to town and their fans made my first trip to Turner Field MISERABLE!!! I don't want the same memories the first time I see my Cowboys.

[Wahoo]

As many of you know, I'm a huge Cowboys fan... have been since I was a little kid. Grew up watching Emmitt, Troy, and Michael... lived through the forgettable years that followed... and remain a huge fan of Tony, Jason, Marion, and my new favorite, Felix.

Anyway, a friend of mine (who is a big Kansas City Chiefs fan) invited me to go to a game in Kansas City when the Cowboys come to town. I can't decide what I want to do. I've never seen a professional football game in person and would LOVE to see my Cowboys play after all these years. But in Kansas City? I hear it's not the nicest place to be in enemy colors and we all know the Cowboys are either loved or hated... no in between.

What do you think? Would it be worth the annoying fans and constant criticism?

I was in Atlanta 3 years ago when the Red Sox came to town and their fans made my first trip to Turner Field MISERABLE!!! I don't want the same memories the first time I see my Cowboys.

I dunno. What are the chances that you'll ever make it to the new stadium? I have it worse, the only way I'll ever get to see them play is in DC. I can totally understand your hesitation. If I were you, I'd just make it a point to save and at some point to see them play in Big D, where you will be amongst friends.

[JanShan12]

Chances of going to Dallas in the near future are slim to none. It would be the ultimate place to see a game though. I just don't know if it's worth the harassment.

[Wahoo]

It would be really hard for me to turn those tickets down, not knowing if I'd ever have another chance to see my team play.

[JanShan12]

Well now I'm even more torn. LOL :)

[Wahoo]

Ask your friend very bluntly what the atmosphere is, and if it's conducive to having a good time if you are a fan of the opposing team. That may go a long way in aiding your decision.

[Hobbes]

If I were you I'd go Jan.

Cowboys fans show up at every opposing stadium (like a virus :p), so you won't be that out of place. Plus, if you're with a Chiefs fan the other fans will likely not be too bad on you.

[JanShan12]

Thanks for the advice, guys.

My friend says her and her husband go to at least one Chiefs game every year and they can be REALLY rough on opponents. She says the men line up to block the bathrooms so opposing fans can't get in and they won't pass beverages/food to them in the stands. Stuff like that. I do think it would be easier on us if we're with 2 Chiefs' fans. There would be 3 Cowboys fans (me, my fiance, and my brother). We'll see. I think I could put up with it for the chance to see my 'Boys! :)

[Andy G.]

All I know is, I'm looking forward to the season opener Dolphins/Falcons game. We're going to see how that Falcons defense keeps them in the game.
I'm looking forward to watching the Dolphins too. I love Ronnie Brown. Both organizations are run so well, and both turned things around in a big way last year. It's a very intriguing game. My mom spent some of her childhood in Miami, and her appreciation for the Dolphins has rubbed off on me some.

[bravos4evr]

I'm a Saints fan. IF we can actually maybe come up with a league average defense we should be among the class of the NFC, if we don't, we are gonna miss the playoffs again....

[hoosjon]

First of all, that's your first mistake. The Redskins blow. Cheering for them is a sure recipe for disappointment..

I nodded my head a little when I read this until I heard you were a Dallas fan. While I've been "trying" to be a 'Skins fan for a couple of years, I've ALWAYS hated the Cowboys pretty easily.

I think this is the first time we've disagreed, Wahoo. The Cowboys? :no: Really?

[Hobbes]

Get used to it. This board is positively infested with Cowgirl fans/Romo slurpers.

[Agent-X-]

There's always room for more Dolphins fans, though! :)

[Dreamscape]

Go Cowboys!

Hobbes is just jealous.

Of what, I have no idea.

Oh, and Don, there is no room for Dolphins fans because Parcells's manboobs takes up just about all of Dolphins nation. Sorry.

[luvdembravos]

As many of you know, I'm a huge Cowboys fan...


My condolences.

[Wahoo]

My condolences.

For what? LOL. That's like consoling your best friend for sleeping with a supermodel.

[JanShan12]

For what? LOL. That's like consoling your best friend for sleeping with a supermodel.

LOL Too funny! :thumbsup:

[luvdembravos]

For what? LOL. That's like consoling your best friend for sleeping with a supermodel.

Rooting for the Boys is like sleeping with a supermodel? LOL

Yeah, it may be nice for awhile but come January, your friend ain't getting any (playoffs wins that is)

[Wahoo]

Rooting for the Boys is like sleeping with a supermodel? LOL

Yeah, it may be nice for awhile but come January, your friend ain't getting any (playoffs wins that is)


Pot meet kettle.

[CanadaBravesFan]

I'm looking forward to watching the Dolphins too. I love Ronnie Brown. Both organizations are run so well, and both turned things around in a big way last year. It's a very intriguing game. My mom spent some of her childhood in Miami, and her appreciation for the Dolphins has rubbed off on me some.

So true. That game should be a blast to watch. Just hoping that my Phins take that next step this year.

[Chris_Moderato]

Go Los Angeles Rams!

[Agent-X-]

So true. That game should be a blast to watch. Just hoping that my Phins take that next step this year.

It certainly doesn't sound like the Phins are taking this schedule lightly. Training camp hasn't started yet, but word around camp is that this team is serious about getting off to a better start to the season than they did last year. Sounds like the philosophy is to meet their challenging schedule head on. :D

[Middle Man]

Go Los Angeles Rams!


Ha, my first favorite football team. When my brother asked why, I said because I liked the curly things on their helmets. Roman Gabriel and Jack Snow were my heroes.

[Chris_Moderato]

I used to be a Denver fan, from the mid-eighties until Elway retired. Now, who cares? Go Rams or St. Louis Cardinals or Houston Oilers, as far as I'm concerned.

[Wahoo]

I used to be a Denver fan, from the mid-eighties until Elway retired. Now, who cares? Go Rams or St. Louis Cardinals or Houston Oilers, as far as I'm concerned.

Do you play fantasy football? That makes watching football like 10 times more enjoyable than normal.

[Chris_Moderato]

Do you play fantasy football? That makes watching football like 10 times more enjoyable than normal.

Hmm...I might give that a shot this year. That's a good idea.

[Braves N 10]

I totally agree. I used to not like football then i tried playing fantasy and now i watch all the games.

[Wahoo]

Hmm...I might give that a shot this year. That's a good idea.

And it's much more easy to manage. I can play like 10 leagues with no problem. Whereas I struggle to keep up with my baseball leagues.

[The Rap]

I think if you play fantasy for money then you are really into the games because otherwise why bother? I am a Giants/Jets fan the Giants because I used to work with them and the Jets because of Joe Willie Namath. I look forward to the year when the two teams can play each other in the Super Bowl and I believe it will be sooner than later.

[Wahoo]

I think if you play fantasy for money then you are really into the games because otherwise why bother? I am a Giants/Jets fan the Giants because I used to work with them and the Jets because of Joe Willie Namath. I look forward to the year when the two teams can play each other in the Super Bowl and I believe it will be sooner than later.

I've never played for money, and I always have a blast. Sometimes we'll make a small wager, but a lot of times pride and bragging rights can be enough motivation, though adding some money too, can definitely ensure that the seriousness of all players.

[Agent-X-]

I just can't get into fantasy football... mainly because I hate rooting for players on other teams--this is double the case for division rivals. I can see how it would be fun to play against friends, though.

I wouldn't dream of putting money on it.

[Dreamscape]

$97M and six years for Eli Manning?

Has he really deserved it? His career numbers are highly...average.

[Middle Man]

About 20 NFL QBs texted their agents this morning- "dude, get me a raise - now!!"

[Hobbes]

$97M and six years for Eli Manning?

Has he really deserved it? His career numbers are highly...average.
Yeah, I'm a Giants fan and I'm scratching my head also.

I've never been a big Eli fan, but he's proven himself to be better than I thought he'd be. However, he's still not what I would consider "elite", and that payday is for an elite QB.

[luvdembravos]

Dumb signing .... but not as bad as the Redskins' $100M, 7 year deal for Albert Haynesworth. The guy's a monster now but I think the Skins' will regret the signing during the last 3-4 years of the contract. The $54M deal for DeAngelo Hall may have been even worse :thumbsdown:

[The Rap]

Eli got the contract because the Giants tied their future to his fortunes and he is a proven winner.

[Wahoo]

As if I needed another reason to hate the Eagles, apparently they have signed Michael Vick.

[JanShan12]

As if I needed another reason to hate the Eagles, apparently they have signed Michael Vick.

Same here!

[Hobbes]

As if I needed another reason to hate the Eagles, apparently they have signed Michael Vick.

Ugh. Nobody hates the Eagles more than I.

[Dreamscape]

Hrm. My new boss is an Eagles fan. Yay, something to talk to him about.

Sadly enough...

[luvdembravos]

I saw bits of the “60 Minutes” interview with Michael Vick and it was hard to tell if he’s truly remorseful or if he was coached to give the right answers. But Vick admitting that he was lazy, didn’t study and didn’t work hard when getting paid $135M tells me all I need to know about this guy: worthless punk.

[Hobbes]

I saw bits of the “60 Minutes” interview with Michael Vick and it was hard to tell if he’s truly remorseful or if he was coached to give the right answers. But Vick admitting that he was lazy, didn’t study and didn’t work hard when getting paid $135M tells me all I need to know about this guy: worthless punk.
I saw that too and also couldn't tell if any of it was real. But I will say that I find it hard to believe that somebody who grew up with such little regard for animal life could really be "converted". I don't believe he really sees dogs in a new respectful way or has true remorse for his treatment of them, because I don't think any amount of PC coaching can change his ingrained beliefs.

Anybody who believes he can be truly rehabilitated in his views towards dogs is likely fooling themselves IMO. He can say the right things at SPCA events and the like, but he'll be faking it.

Now the part about him being a lazy player in the past is interesting, and possibly he truly did come to that revelation.

[Middle Man]

Hide Your Beagle... (http://www.trentonian.com/articles/2009/08/14/news/doc4a84d3bf4ded9174946847.txt)

[The Rap]

I agree and think he is full of it. His real problem is that he hasn't got enough money to do it again. I have never owned a dog but did live with a woman who had a cat. Don't have deep feelings about animal rights but one thing I do know is that torturing them has to be a symptom of something wrong in the head.

[Hobbes]

Hide Your Beagle... (http://www.trentonian.com/articles/2009/08/14/news/doc4a84d3bf4ded9174946847.txt)
Of course, this has been big news around here. There have been lots of news reports of supposed "outrage" from local fans, but I suspect that will last only until the first game-winning play he makes.

[Dreamscape]

Hey, cool, Brett Farve is back.

I'm so very surprised.

Wait, surprised may be the wrong word...

[wordslayer©]

I am so sick of Favre. With any luck, maybe he can have a career ending injury. Enough is enough.

[Dreamscape]

I love the message this sends to the Vikings' QBs.

It's like getting dumped by a hot girl so you decide to date the girl who think you're awesome and then the hot girl says "ah, hell, I'm bored, wanna come over?"

Not...that...I know anything about doing that...or anything...

[luvdembravos]

You know, Brett Favre hasn’t killed anyone; gambled on games he played in; lied about steroids; abused drugs or alcohol; or been involved in illegal dog fighting operations but for some reason my respect for him as dropped about as much as if he were involved in any of the abovementioned activities. I use to think Favre was cool and tough ... but now I just view him as a bona fide D!PS^!T.

[Dreamscape]

I also used to think Farve was cool...but then he did Wrangler commercials.

[Hobbes]

Yes, he has completely tainted his legacy. Even though there was debate about his ranking amongst the greatest QBs, he was generally viewed to be one of the all-time best. Most of that is now overshadowed (and will continue to be in the future) by his undignified shenanigans at the end of his career.

[KB 34]

Yesterday I had a discussion with one of my friends about how stupid Favre would be if he signed with the Vikings. How about that irony? Favre has an enormous ego and won't quit until his body gives out and everyone hates him, which is a shame. WI residents are either in violent or mourning moods right now.

[Andy G.]

I saw that too and also couldn't tell if any of it was real. But I will say that I find it hard to believe that somebody who grew up with such little regard for animal life could really be "converted". I don't believe he really sees dogs in a new respectful way or has true remorse for his treatment of them, because I don't think any amount of PC coaching can change his ingrained beliefs.

Anybody who believes he can be truly rehabilitated in his views towards dogs is likely fooling themselves IMO. He can say the right things at SPCA events and the like, but he'll be faking it.

Now the part about him being a lazy player in the past is interesting, and possibly he truly did come to that revelation.
You're probably right. I just wish people wouldn't judge somebody for this type of thing though. It's a cultural issue. I understand loving dogs and being horrified by what was being done to them in his operation, but as you said, these are ingrained beliefs. It's definitely wrong. It's against the law, and it was cruel what he was doing. It's just not something that defines a person I guess. Many of the cows, chickens and turkeys everybody loves to eat are treated in a similar fashion. I suppose it's just an issue of someone taking an opportunity to put themselves above another. I mean, who's going to tell you that he was right to kill those dogs? If you want to make him out to be the spawn of Satan for what he did, it's safe to say that there won't be many people disagreeing with you.

As for the laziness as a player, that's really disappointing. I loved and defended Michael Vick when he was with the Falcons. I still think he was as good as the hype said he was, because a player that unique can not have his contributions measured the same way a typical quarterback would. The Falcons rarely lost because of Michael Vick, but they usually won because of him IMO. If nothing else, he was the most exciting player I'll ever watch play football or any other game. I'm VERY thankful I got to see him do things that nobody else will ever do again.

I still love Michael Vick. That hasn't changed because of what he did to the dogs. I won't judge him until I've walked a mile in his shoes. He's an awesome football player and if not for him, there's no telling where the Atlanta Falcons would be today. He brought football back in Atlanta all by himself. I wish him all the best with the Eagles.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What's so terrible about what Favre's doing? It's silly to handle things the way he has, but I don't see the big deal. I'm not going to dislike him after looking up to him for so long because of this. I'll take every chance I can get to see Brett Favre play football.

[luvdembravos]

I still love Michael Vick. That hasn't changed because of what he did to the dogs. I won't judge him until I've walked a mile in his shoes. He's an awesome football player and if not for him, there's no telling where the Atlanta Falcons would be today. He brought football back in Atlanta all by himself. I wish him all the best with the Eagles.


By screwing up, Michael Vick put the Atlanta Falcons in a position to draft Matt Ryan. That’s probably his greatest contribution to the organization because the Falcons were definitely going backwards with Vick at the helm.

[Dreamscape]

You're probably right. I just wish people wouldn't judge somebody for this type of thing though. It's a cultural issue. I understand loving dogs and being horrified by what was being done to them in his operation, but as you said, these are ingrained beliefs. It's definitely wrong. It's against the law, and it was cruel what he was doing. It's just not something that defines a person I guess. Many of the cows, chickens and turkeys everybody loves to eat are treated in a similar fashion. I suppose it's just an issue of someone taking an opportunity to put themselves above another. I mean, who's going to tell you that he was right to kill those dogs? If you want to make him out to be the spawn of Satan for what he did, it's safe to say that there won't be many people disagreeing with you.
It is not a cultural issue and let's not try to excuse this behavior because of that. Michael Vick was not a gang member with no education, nor any way to develop a conscious. The man knew right from wrong and decided to take part in this action. I don't see the comparison between cows, chickens, and turkeys and dogs, though. One is a pet and has been defined as a pet for several centuries and outside of a few cultures, it is not considered food. Beyond that, as far as I know, only in things like dog fighting are the animals trained to be more aggressive. Often, they are pumped with steroids and trained to kill by destroying weaker dogs that are either adopted from shelters, caught as strays, or flatout stolen from other people. Even if the dog wins a fight, because they can't take the dog to a vet, the handler tries to be a vet himself. Guess how well that works, hmm?

But true, if you already liked Vick, maybe you will give him more leeway. Maybe you can sit back and try to be understanding of the man who did these disgusting things. Maybe you can see the goodness. I can't. I'm only happy he didn't sign with the Cowboys. I thought T.O. signing was bad enough and all he did was spike the star and act like a primadonna. He was never convicted of a felony that included electrocuting, shooting, and hanging dogs. Right now, I don't have a dog because my last dog, Chipper, was ran over. But I don't know how anyone who has lived with dogs and grown up around them in a peaceful manner can look at Vick and hope he does well. I won't wish harm onto another person, but I can't say I'll feel bad if he fails miserably.

Like My Name is Earl. Do good things and good things happen. Do bad things..., well, I guess the Eagles sign you.

EDIT: And by the way...I don't understand the "I won't judge" argument. Are we that scared to hold people responsible for their actions without trying to find some way to excuse it? People do things wrong out of their environment and upbringing, sure. But this wasn't stealing to feed himself. This wasn't a minor infraction. This wasn't even steroids, an action that proves to bring more money to a player. If you can't judge someone for torturing animals...what can you ever judge one for?

[Andy G.]

EDIT: And by the way...I don't understand the "I won't judge" argument. Are we that scared to hold people responsible for their actions without trying to find some way to excuse it? People do things wrong out of their environment and upbringing, sure. But this wasn't stealing to feed himself. This wasn't a minor infraction. This wasn't even steroids, an action that proves to bring more money to a player. If you can't judge someone for torturing animals...what can you ever judge one for?
I'm not excusing anything. I have had dogs my entire life. I have three pugs right now and they're the cutest things in the world. I'm not making excuses or giving him leeway. I'm saying that they're animals. If in one person's mind, dogs are no more special than the cows and chickens, but in your mind they're more special because they're pets, how is anyone right or wrong? Those animals I mentioned ARE tortured by the way. It's not just the process of killing them to get the meet off of them, it's the way they're treated before that time comes. It's just as awful as dog fighting. If I grew up with a pet cow, would I be wrong to think just as badly of you for eating them as you do about Vick for what he did to the dogs?

That's what I'm talking about. If you're going to judge Michael Vick, you need to judge every butter ball employee who's ever walked past a turkey at one of their farms or factories or whatever and punched the turkey in the throat just for ****s and giggles. How's that different? I could go on. It's happening right now and nobody cares because those animals happen to taste good. Animals are tortured every day, and you eat them. So can I judge you for that?

[KB 34]

I'll take Vick's word on this and I haven't read about him becoming a vegetarian.

What I did was horrendous. Awful. Inhumane. And I've no excuses for my actions. It makes my heart hurt now to think about what I've done. And I'm gonna be real honest, it took a while for me to get to this place.

"Sitting in a prison cell didn't make me feel remorse. It was meeting so many animal lovers, speaking with them and looking them in their eyes. Staring at them. Looking so deep into their eyes that I began to feel their pain. Allowing that pain to enter into my body is when I started to understand how bad it really was. I have been trying hard to connect with people who feel this pain, because for my whole life I was disconnected from the suffering of animals. And you might say, "come on Mike, how could you do those things to those dogs?" And you're right ... I ask myself those questions every day. What kind of person does this? How does a human-being treat dogs or any animal with such pain and cruelty? And the hard part for me is the answer to these questions. Because the answer is ME. And I am trying so hard right now to become a better person, because who I was, I am ashamed of.


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedishrag/2009/08/michael-vick-admits-what-he-did-to-animals-was-horrendous.html

[Dreamscape]

We have laws for just what you are talking about. That employee should also be convicted for animal rights violations as well and never able to get his job back. And sure, you can judge me for eating a delicious chicken sandwich. Be my guest.

To try to compare the two to, yes, excuse Michael Vick of some of the wrongdoing he has done is surprising, though. Where is the evidence that to Vick, dogs and cattle, turkeys, and chickens are considered one in the same? I mean, sure, if you want to go with that theory, I guess you can excuse what Vick has done, but Vick is at least a slightly educated man. He knows the differences between what is considered right and what is considered wrong. And I'm going to remain judgemental about that. I know you aren't saying he wasn't wrong, but if you are saying he was wrong, then why would you want him to succeed?

Put it like this. If that Butter Ball employee was fired and convicted for cruelty, would you want him to get his job back? Maybe he seemed remorseful to you, but the actions of Michael Vick before this came out and after shows a man who either was incredibly ignorant or thought he was above the law. Ron Mexico with his water bottle and its little compartment for pot who gets indicted on a federal felony and still doesn't think to put the joint down?

Yes, animals used for food and other circumstances are tortured and those videos make for horrifying images on youtube. And they are breaking the law, namely the Humane Slaughter Act. And I do believe they should be convicted, just like the companies that sit by and don't educate their workers or expect X-amount of hogs/cattle/etc to be slaughtered in a particular time frame that is not reasonable. But whereas I know the dogs Vick had were being tortured, I can't know for a fact that the burger or hot dog at the game came from an animal that was tortured or humanely slaughtered. I don't see the comparison being just.

Dogs are just not comparable in front of the law and in front of the majority of society. Dogs have been domesticated for 15,000 years according to wikipedia. Maybe some grow up around dog fighting and become dissentized to the violence. That's unfortunate, but when that same man is presented incredible opportunities and a chance at a world class education and doesn't care about the errors in judgment he is making, I have no sympathy for him. In there was a just world, he would be looking for a job right now and marking "have you ever been convicted of a felony and if so, please explain." But because he is an athlete with remarkable natural ability, he gets a second chance. Oh, wait, no, he's on his tenth or so chance by now.

[Andy G.]

I was not comparing those two actions as if they were similar in regards to how 'wrong' they are. I hoped that I would be given a little more credit than that. I don't judge the dude punching the turkey. I don't think that guy's an a-hole just because he does that. He shouldn't do that, but I don't know the man. I'm sure that there are a lot of things about that guy that make him a pretty good human being. Punching the turkey is not the defining moment in his life.

I'm not excusing Vick's actions. I'm not. I'm in total agreement with you on how terrible they are, and how awful it is for a person to do that. There's no point in me saying that Vick did that so he's this bad of a person, or Vick did that so he shouldn't be allowed to do this anymore. Whether I decide to hate a person because of one mistake they made or not has no impact on their future or mine. Why hate? I hope he's a good guy. I hope he honestly sees how terrible his actions were. I'm not in the position to pass judgment on him.

[Dreamscape]

I think I am. I think any human being is capable of judging one another and frankly, should. It's how you point out people to kids to tell them "don't be like that." But I get that you don't want to judge people. I realize on one hand, you aren't excusing him, but trying to maybe understand the situation. Me, I don't care to understand. Michael Vick isn't the young kid who joins a gang selling drugs rather than stay in school because to him, that's the best way at getting rich. That kid's not going to go to college for two years and get out of the ghetto to a conservative town like Blacksburg, Virginia. That kid, I understand the mistakes he makes.

In addition, I think it's wrong to paint this ordeal as one bad mistake. Trying to sneak pot in a little compartment on a water bottle is a bad mistake. This was a calculated decision to torture and destroy animals. Maybe I'm a bad person, I don't know, but people who perform actions like that deserve the scorn they receive. He's lucky to not continue to serve time. I mentioned the guy from Butter Ball because that guy's not getting his job back. Michael Vick lost a lot of money and lost two years of his career, but he gets his job back in a sense. I just don't find that justice. I have never cared for the man, partly because he was vastly overrated as a QB and a douchebag at that, but until the whole dog fighting thing came out, I could get over it. I swallowed my pride to welcome T.O. for God's sakes. But I cannot accept Michael Vick now. I could care less if he's a good guy, says all the right things, and gives to the Humane Society. To me, he's only doing it to sell his jersey and make himself marketable. And sure, most athletes do the same, but then, most of them didn't committ the crimes Vick did.

[Andy G.]

...Maybe I'm a bad person, I don't know...
Not at all. I know that with the stance I've taken in this debate it could seem like I'm deliberately trying to paint myself as the better person here. That's obviously not the case. You made your point well. We approach these types of things differently is all.

Uh... Go Falcons!

[Andy G.]

By screwing up, Michael Vick put the Atlanta Falcons in a position to draft Matt Ryan. That’s probably his greatest contribution to the organization because the Falcons were definitely going backwards with Vick at the helm.
A) You obviously don't live in the Atlanta area and have no idea how people thought of the Falcons before Vick became the starting quarterback. Atlanta wasn't the football town it is now before Vick.

B) Vick brought fans to the stadium and he took the Falcons to the NFC Championship game. He is the reason the Falcons have the fan base they do, which allows Arthur Blank to be the owner that he is.

C) Matt Ryan is the man in Atlanta. He's perfect. He's a legitimate super star, says the right things, does the right things and is an under the radar type of guy. Arthur Blank, Rich McKay, Thomas Dimitroff and Mike Smith turned the organization around again after the Bobby Petrino Fiasco and the Falcons are back to being an exciting football team. Still, in the one year that Vick was gone and the team was awful because of it, they lost a lot of their buzz. The fan base was shrinking fast. Another year or two of awful football would have put the organization back to where it was before Vick. Atlanta is not the loyalest of cities when it comes to supporting their teams. Michael Vick is a big reason the Falcons are where they are.

[Chris_Moderato]

Mike Vick has served his time. His actions which lead to the prison sentence were truly disturbing. I'm glad his operation was discovered and shut down. The puppies of the greater Tidewater region can breath a sigh of relief.

Andy's right, though. The treatment of cows, chickens, turkeys and pigs prior to slaughter is abhorrent. This hasn't stopped me from eating meat because, frankly, I like to grill. It's still disgusting, at least as disgusting as the treatment of fighting dogs.

[luvdembravos]

I'm well aware of Vick's contributions to the Falcons and while he led them to the NFC championship game one year (a game they lost BTW), that was as far the organization was going to go with Vick at the helm. Even with all of Vick's so-called greatness, did the Falcons ever have consecutive winning seasons? Nope. But I'll admit he did bring people to the stadium and he sold a lot of jerseys. He did the same thing for Virginia Tech football and put that school on the CFB map. If selling seats and jerseys was your goal, then Vick was your man but if you wanted to win a championship, you had to look elsewhere.

Although Vick was blessed with extraordinary talent, he squandered it because: 1) He's not very smart 2) He's lazy 3) He didn't study film enough 4) He didn't work out in the gym enough, etc. etc. To sum it up, Vick wasn't a professional football player.

Vick signed a $135M contract with the Falcons. One would think for that amount of money, Vick could've given 100% effort to the organization but he didn't. In the end, he got was he deserved.

[Agent-X-]

Ok. Enough of the pointless "other teams" news.

Gather 'round Phins fans! Eric Green's contract just got terminated! Oh yeah! Don't have to worry about toast being out on the field. :)

[The Rap]

My only care about Favre joining the Vikings can be said in two words;

BERNARD BERRIAN

[Wahoo]

Yeah, I am going to stay out of the Vick debate, because, well I've always loathed him. I've always felt he's overrated, and feel he's lucky to have been given the second chance, and I'll leave it at that.

Actually...Vick's a douche. I'll leave it at that.

Favre: I like the guy. I do think he's an outstanding talent, but I'm starting to think he'd make an even better politician. His flip-flopping is second to none. And any team that's willing to tolerate that deserves whatever fate they are dealt.

[luvdembravos]

Favre: I like the guy. I do think he's an outstanding talent, but I'm starting to think he'd make an even better politician. His flip-flopping is second to none.

Excellent point, Wahoo! Plus he's no Einstein which makes him even more qualified to run for office. ;)

[JanShan12]

Can't wait until tomorrow night's football game... Giants @ Cowboys!!! We are ordering pizza and wings and hopefully celebrating a Cowboys victory!

[The Rap]

78 per cent of NFL players go bankrupt after retiring from the game. Usually in just a few years. Great article currently posted over at Yahoo.com and I urge you all to read it including most of the comments made by readers. Very illuminating.

[Lauren T.]

78 per cent of NFL players go bankrupt after retiring from the game. Usually in just a few years. Great article currently posted over at Yahoo.com and I urge you all to read it including most of the comments made by readers. Very illuminating.
I think it's funny that Wiki wants to tell me Steve Bartkowski (who some of you might remember as the Falcons QB for 10 years) is on the Falcons' Board of Directors. Last time I worked with him at a charity event, he was one of those out-of-money former stars and was working in construction. Maybe he's been hired by the Falcons since I last saw him? Who knows.

ETA: Huh, here he is (http://www.atlantafalcons.com/People/Staff_Roster/Board_of_Advisors.aspx). Good for him.

[Dreamscape]

Awful play by Romo. No pressure of Eli as Phillips refused to blitz.

And the Cowboys still should have won. Crappy way to open the stadium, but really, there's nothing that the Cowboys can't fix going forward. They just need to wake the hell up out there.

[Hobbes]

TAKE THAT COWBOYS!!!

Welcome to your new stadium. :D

[The Rap]

I am giddy because of the starts by the Giants and Jets but I still was most impressed by the last play of the Chargers-Ravens game. It might have been the greatest single defensive play I have ever seen. Bravo Ray Lewis!

[bravos4evr]

The Saints sure look mighty so far. If the defense can just hang onto mid level status this team could go 13-3 or better!!!! wooooooooooooo

[Hobbes]

The Saints sure look mighty so far. If the defense can just hang onto mid level status this team could go 13-3 or better!!!! wooooooooooooo
They looked very good yesterday, and it was a pleasure to watch them pound the Iggles. :D

[Wahoo]

That's pretty telling: 4 giveways and 0 takeaways and you STILL lead the game putting up 30 points late in the game. That suggests a pretty powerful team. Having said that, this team is very flawed. If the Cowboys finished any better than 8-8 I'll be shocked, but last night's game was a complete give away.

[JanShan12]

I love Felix Jones! Had to get that off my chest. What do you boys call it... a man crush? Well for a lesbian I don't know what you call it, but I have it. LOL

[Dreamscape]

I definitely do have a major man crush on Felix. Barber is solid and Choice is a good backup, but Felix Jones could be a superstar.

[luvdembravos]

No man crush on "big game" Romo?

[Dreamscape]

No man crush on "big game" Romo?
I'm just waiting for him to live up to his potential. Ya know, the Jason Campbell approach.

[Hobbes]

I'm just waiting for him to live up to his potential. Ya know, the Jason Campbell approach.

Big games just seem to bring out the worst in Romo.

[Dreamscape]

Big games just seem to bring out the worst in Romo.
This wasn't a big game and the worst was brought out of Romo.

[Hobbes]

This wasn't a big game and the worst was brought out of Romo.

Well, it was a big game in the sense that it was the opening of the huge new stadium, with all the pomp and fanfare and pressure to win the inaugural game. Dignitaries and HOF former Cowboys were there to watch. Plus the game was on Sunday Night Football.

The game wasn't big in terms of meaning for the season, but it was a big game in other ways.

[luvdembravos]

Ditto. The game was the most watched primetime regular season NFL game since 1998 and gave NBC its highest rating ever for Sunday Night Football … so in a sense, it was a “big” game. But no matter how you want to define “big game,” the fact remains that when the spotlight is on Tony Romo, he melts like the wicked witch of the west.

[Hobbes]

But no matter how you want to define “big game,” the fact remains that when the spotlight is on Tony Romo, he melts like the wicked witch of the west.
Conversely, I came away quite impressed with Eli Manning's poise. He has really become much more confident and capable over the past couple of years. He was particularly impressive in that final drive, calmly taking his team down the field and managing the clock for the last-second field goal.

He'll never be Peyton, but he's a solid QB.

[luvdembravos]

Eli was impressive. I also remain impressed with Tom Coughlin and the Giants' coaching staff. It just doesn't seem to matter who the Giants place at the WR position...their guys always perform...oh, and it doesn't hurt to have a great offensive line.

[The Rap]

Cowboys would make a major jump forward if they began by firing their coach. If you feel the Cowboys couldn't get up for the game then the coach is the one to blame.

[Dreamscape]

Ditto. The game was the most watched primetime regular season NFL game since 1998 and gave NBC its highest rating ever for Sunday Night Football … so in a sense, it was a “big” game. But no matter how you want to define “big game,” the fact remains that when the spotlight is on Tony Romo, he melts like the wicked witch of the west.
Somehow, despite the choke artist that he is, he led the NFL in quarterback rating in the fourth quarter last year, the most important part of the game.

Nevertheless, it wasn't a big game and doubt anyone but the media treated it like one.

[JanShan12]

I don't think there's any question if the Cowboys were "up" for the game. Wade wasn't to blame for Sunday night's loss. Crucial mistakes were. Major mistakes and still scored 30 points and had the lead going into the final minutes.

[bravos4evr]

Now, I don't like the Cowboys, in fact they are my least favorite team in the NFL ( okay maybe next to last behind the Patriots) but the problem with the franchise IMO, appears to be like the Raiders. It's ownership meddling, coaches not feeling like they have the freedom to build and develop their own players that are based on a consistent system.

In the NFL, good coaches have a system, they draft and/or acquire players that fit their system and they are successful. I sometimes think that the Boy's, 49'ers and some others are putting players on the field to sell tickets and/or media spotlights , rather than win games ( yeah, I'm looking at you Bidwell)

[luvdembravos]

Somehow, despite the choke artist that he is, he led the NFL in quarterback rating in the fourth quarter last year, the most important part of the game.




…and exactly what did that 4th quarter QB rating get the Cowboys last year?

It’s no surprise that a quarterback who is trying to play catch-up will get more completions and passing yardage in the 4th quarter when the opposing defense is conceding yards underneath in order to prevent the big play.

Surely, a Romo apologist can come up with something better to defend your boy ;)

[Andy G.]

You don't automatically play well because your team is in catch-up mode. Romo's a good quarterback. He's criticized too much because of where he plays.

The Falcons have the Patriots on the road this week. The Pats are going to wake up on offense at some point, and Atlanta's defense still has a lot to prove. I think the Falcons will put up a lot more points than the Jets, but we'll see if it's enough to beat the Patriots.

Is anybody else tired of the Jets and Rex Ryan already? That guy's annoying as hell. That BS modesty he tries to show is actually fooling people. I've heard some say that he's "likable". Saying, "I know they have a better coach than us and probably a better quarterback too" is not likable. It's total BS. He thinks he's the best coach in the league. Give me a break. He's as arrogant as they come, and I hate that the Jets beat the Pats after all that stupid trash talk. You don't have to go into your new team with that mentality in order to instill a winning atmosphere. In fact, I'd say it only hurts to act that way. If the Jets go into a losing streak, with the importance that Ryan is placing on games this early in the season, the New York media is going to crush them and the players are going to be under a ton of pressure. It's not a smart move by Ryan. I kinda hope he falls on his face.

[bravos4evr]

To be honest, I enjoy any trash talk or losses directed at the Patriots

[luvdembravos]

And the Redskins lose to the Lions who will no doubt win more games this year than Washington. The Braves absolutely need to get into the playoffs cuz I'll have nothing to cheer for until next spring.:(

[Dreamscape]

Time to bust out the Jason Witten shirt...well, once 4:30 hits and I'm off work. It'll probably be a very tough game for the Cowboys because their rushing defense is suspect and Steve Smith seems to be Randy Moss-like against the 'Boys, but I think Felix Jones is going to have a huge game even if Barber plays. Cowboys 24-18

[Middle Man]

It's hard to be a Redskin fan. Very, very hard. I'd feel better if Snyder was 85 years old and a chain smoker, but no such luck. I'd consider switching teams - any suggestions? - except I already own a Redskins hat and the kids have Portis jerseys.

On a related note, the Redskins corporate jet was seen Monday at a small Colorado airport that just happens to be near Shanahan's house - true story. The Redskins spokesperson doesn't deny it but says it was there on non-redskin business. Okeydokey.

WashPo blog thingy (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/jason-reid/redskins-plane-in-colorado-but.html)

[Dreamscape]

Cowboys looked bad for a half.

And then, something clicked. Maybe Wade Phillips cussed them out. Maybe Demarcus Ware told his defense to step up. Maybe Tony Romo decided he was over Jessica Simpson. Whatever it was, the second half was much better. Cowboys don't have that TO threat to bust the other team on any given play, but the more Felix Jones gets the ball, the closer he gets to acheiving greatness.

Now...if he can just stay healthy.

Time to go humble the 3-0 Broncos.

[Wahoo]

Cowboys looked bad for a half.

And then, something clicked. Maybe Wade Phillips cussed them out. Maybe Demarcus Ware told his defense to step up. Maybe Tony Romo decided he was over Jessica Simpson. Whatever it was, the second half was much better. Cowboys don't have that TO threat to bust the other team on any given play, but the more Felix Jones gets the ball, the closer he gets to acheiving greatness.

Now...if he can just stay healthy.

Time to go humble the 3-0 Broncos.

Looks like the only one getting humbled is Tony Romo. That guy cannot stop turning the ball over. I'm about to ready to see this team blown up and completely rebuilt.

[Dreamscape]

Looks like the only one getting humbled is Tony Romo. That guy cannot stop turning the ball over. I'm about to ready to see this team blown up and completely rebuilt.
Romo isn't doing too well, but Garrett continues to look like an overrated OC. And I don't put that INT on Romo. Austin is not a good route runner.

[Wahoo]

Romo isn't doing too well, but Garrett continues to look like an overrated OC. And I don't put that INT on Romo. Austin is not a good route runner.


I agree on Garrett. Looks like the polish has worn off there. And Austin isn't a good route runner, and our wide receiver corps does blow donkey nuts, but turnovers continue to happen with Romo. They may not always be his fault, but he has some role in them, and they've been occurring more frequently the past two years. I've seen enough of him that I'm ready to start looking for his replacement. He's too busy being a celebrity to perfect his craft.

[Dreamscape]

Okay, Romo.

Time for you to tie this game.

[Andy G.]

I'm a Falcons fan, not a Cowboys fan, but I think Romo's good enough to win a Super Bowl. I mean, he's got one of the best quarterback ratings in history. I'm not going to rank him against other quarterbacks, but I like his abilities a lot.

If he were quarterbacking for Payton in New Orleans instead of Drew Brees, I think that offense would be just about as good as it is right now.

[Wahoo]

I'm a Falcons fan, not a Cowboys fan, but I think Romo's good enough to win a Super Bowl. I mean, he's got one of the best quarterback ratings in history. I'm not going to rank him against other quarterbacks, but I like his abilities a lot.

If he were quarterbacking for Payton in New Orleans instead of Drew Brees, I think that offense would be just about as good as it is right now.

No it really wouldn't. Drew Brees doesn't turn the ball over.

[Dreamscape]

Um, well, that was pass interference, but if Romo makes a better throw on third down, it's a score.

[Wahoo]

Um, well, that was pass interference, but if Romo makes a better throw on third down, it's a score.

Seconded. Champ was draped on his back on both plays, but then again, he gets away with that all the time. That last throw it was a little more blatant, but the refs didn't have the stones to throw the flag.

Edit: Having said that the reasons we lost this game is evident in our lack of playmaking ability at wideout and very vanilla playcalling from Mr. Garrett.

[Dreamscape]

I'm a Falcons fan, not a Cowboys fan, but I think Romo's good enough to win a Super Bowl. I mean, he's got one of the best quarterback ratings in history. I'm not going to rank him against other quarterbacks, but I like his abilities a lot.

If he were quarterbacking for Payton in New Orleans instead of Drew Brees, I think that offense would be just about as good as it is right now.
Well, I wouldn't go that far...

Romo is a good quarterback. Some people praise him too much, but he's also given way too much grief. I mean, there are a handful of quarterbacks in this league that are able to make that play to Hurd on 4th and 3. And I do think he is good enough to win a Super Bowl. He's just not one of those special quarterbacks. He's not Peyton Manning and he's definitely not Troy Aikman and Cowboys fans believe those players grow on trees.

All that said, he had a bad ballgame today.

[Wahoo]

Well, I wouldn't go that far...

Romo is a good quarterback. Some people praise him too much, but he's also given way too much grief. I mean, there are a handful of quarterbacks in this league that are able to make that play to Hurd on 4th and 3. And I do think he is good enough to win a Super Bowl. He's just not one of those special quarterbacks. He's not Peyton Manning and he's definitely not Troy Aikman and Cowboys fans believe those players grow on trees.

All that said, he had a bad ballgame today.

And the problem I have with him is that his bad ballgames are occurring too frequently for him to be considered even a good quarterback anymore. It's no longer just once or twice a season, it's becoming a trend with him. Yes, his receivers blow, but he's making some bad decisions on a regular basis.

[bravos4evr]

The Saints won with Defense yesterday! Man, watch out NFC, Da Saints are looking more and more like the dominant team in this conference!

[Andy G.]

No it really wouldn't. Drew Brees doesn't turn the ball over.
There's not a big difference between Romo and Brees. Romo doesn't throw as many interceptions as you make it out to be. If Romo were still playing for Payton, he'd be thought of as highly as Brees is right now. Take Brees out of New Orleans and he's still very good, but he's not racking up the stats at nearly the pace he is with the Saints.

[The Rap]

Rome isn't nearly as good as Brees. If he was you wouldn't be watching Tony do what he has been doing. Funny thing is that T.O. isn't very happy in Buffalo.

[luvdembravos]

Rome isn't nearly as good as Brees.


And neither is Paris, London or Tokyo. ;)

[Dreamscape]

And neither is Paris, London or Tokyo. ;)
But he's right. Jim Rome is no Drew Brees. Frankly, he's no Jim "Chris" Everett either.

[bravos4evr]

Brees has got an amazing ability to choose a reciever and release the football uber fast. I don't think it's Marino fast, but it's very close. I don't see enough of Romo to judge him, but I don't think there have been many QB's in the last 25 years who were as good and efficient a passer as Drew Brees.

[luvdembravos]

I have to admit, I'm looking forward to the Packers-Vikings game tonight. I'm hoping Aaron Rodgers steals the show.

[Hobbes]

I have to admit, I'm looking forward to the Packers-Vikings game tonight. I'm hoping Aaron Rodgers steals the show.

Nope, it was most definitely the Brett Favre show.

[bravos4evr]

I disagree . It looked to me like the Jared Allen show! That guy was everywhere! 4.5 sacks! ( shoulda been 5). Man the Packer line looked awful.

[Dreamscape]

Derek Anderson completed 2 of 17 passes.

And the Browns won.

That's like a starting pitcher giving up eight runs in five innings and getting a win because his offense scored a dozen.

[The Rap]

It will be interesting to see if the Cowboys can have a good year. Miles Austin looked like crap all training camp and exploded unbelievably today.

[Dreamscape]

It will be interesting to see if the Cowboys can have a good year. Miles Austin looked like crap all training camp and exploded unbelievably today.
Austin is a big play, highly inconsistent wide receiver. He runs horrible routes, but is dangerous with the ball in his hands. Though, he has awful hands. If he can stretch the field, that's all I want.

[The Rap]

would you sit down Roy for Austin?

[Dreamscape]

Absolutely not.

Roy Williams has been open half of the year. Romo hasn't got him the ball. Austin will disappear as many times as he appears.

[Wahoo]

I know I'm biased, but in my opinion, Kevin Ogletree needs a look. He's faster than Crayton and Hurd, and IMO will be more consistent than either of them. He deserves a shot at some playing. The current group is certainly not earning it's current time.

[bravos4evr]

I'm already getting hyped for next weeks Saints V Giants game. Maybe the 2 best teams in the NFC battling it out already! If the Saints can win that game, it has to make them an elite team this season.

[Dreamscape]

Go Saints!

...for some reason...

[JanShan12]

I wonder why, Dream. :) lol

Same reason (reasons) I'm rooting for the Saints!

[Agent-X-]

Glad to see Miami is on their way back in a big way.

They beat those Jets like a drum. Every call went the Jets way, and Miami convincingly won that game.

Welcome to the league, Mr. Henne. :)

[The Rap]

It was obvious that the reason Miami beat the Jets was due to the latter's inability to blitz because they were facing a super running attack who were using various configurations offensively well designed to confuse any defensive opponent. The really interesting games will be the 2nd ones between the Jets and both the Patriots and Dolphins.

Dreams obvious reason has to be that I am a Giants fan. :>)

[The Rap]

Glad to see Miami is on their way back in a big way.

They beat those Jets like a drum. Every call went the Jets way, and Miami convincingly won that game.

Welcome to the league, Mr. Henne. :)

Not nearly every call. I was shocked when Braylon's 2nd TD was overturned.

[Agent-X-]

Nice observations, Rap. I didn't get to catch the whole game, so I'll be watching it on Rewind today or tomorrow. I based my comment on the calls off of remarks from Jets fans--they were possibly exaggerating out of frustration.

Looking forward to that second game. Sanchez has a great arm. He hits the mark near perfectly way down field... it's scary. Should be a good second game. Miami's O-line seemed to grow up for that last game. To think that Henne was sacked 6 times by the Bills...

Should be a good game in three weeks. Miami's got two weeks to prepare for the Saints. Should be another heavyweight bout that comes down to the wire.

[luvdembravos]

I’m done with the Redskins … They’ll never be a factor in the NFL again as long as Daniel Snyder is the owner. Snyder & Co.’s latest brilliant move to bring in a 67 year old geezer out of retirement to evaluate the offense with a “fresh set of eyes” is embarrassing. Hey Snyder, you could’ve saved a lot of money and just called me. It doesn’t take a fresh set of eyes to see that the offense sucks! Why? Mainly because Snyder & Co. ignored the O-line during the off season while wasting big bucks on defensive players like Haynesworth and Hall. Campbell is a NFL back-up quality QB; Redskin running backs are slow and their receivers are average on their best days. Jim Zorn’s a nice guy but he’s not qualified to be an NFL offensive coordinator, much less a head coach. But I don’t put the blame on him because he’s the only guy Snyder could find after everyone else he went after turned him down. It’s time to blow this team up … but before Snyder does that, he needs to do all Skins’ fans a favor and sell this team to an owner who knows what he’s doing. Call Joe Gibbs and see if he can put an ownership group together. Until then, I’ll be following the Atlanta Falcons.

[Middle Man]

I’m done with the Redskins … .... Call Joe Gibbs and see if he can put an ownership group together. Until then, I’ll be following the Atlanta Falcons.

Very similar to my own feelings. Unfortunately, I don't have one of those NFL TV packages so it's hard to say I'm gonna follow the Falcons when they're almost never on TV.

[Agent-X-]

Very similar to my own feelings. Unfortunately, I don't have one of those NFL TV packages so it's hard to say I'm gonna follow the Falcons when they're almost never on TV.

NFL Game Rewind. Watch all games in high def. Can't watch live, but it beats paying a ton of money for Sunday Ticket.

That's enabling me to follow the Dolphins and Cowboys. Other than that, I manage to get some interesting live game feeds on game day. :p

[Devil Wears Prado]

I’m done with the Redskins … They’ll never be a factor in the NFL again as long as Daniel Snyder is the owner. Snyder & Co.’s latest brilliant move to bring in a 67 year old geezer out of retirement to evaluate the offense with a “fresh set of eyes” is embarrassing. Hey Snyder, you could’ve saved a lot of money and just called me. It doesn’t take a fresh set of eyes to see that the offense sucks! Why? Mainly because Snyder & Co. ignored the O-line during the off season while wasting big bucks on defensive players like Haynesworth and Hall. Campbell is a NFL back-up quality QB; Redskin running backs are slow and their receivers are average on their best days. Jim Zorn’s a nice guy but he’s not qualified to be an NFL offensive coordinator, much less a head coach. But I don’t put the blame on him because he’s the only guy Snyder could find after everyone else he went after turned him down. It’s time to blow this team up … but before Snyder does that, he needs to do all Skins’ fans a favor and sell this team to an owner who knows what he’s doing. Call Joe Gibbs and see if he can put an ownership group together. Until then, I’ll be following the Atlanta Falcons.

Yeah, I have a friend who's a St. Louis Rams fan and a Washington fan. I think it'd be better off if I put him on suicide watch.

The problem with Washington is that they went hard after Jay Cutler and Mark Sanchez this offseason. Then when they failed to get either of them before the start of the season, they were forced to pretend like they liked Jason Campbell all along. It's probably better if they started rebuilding again. They had some nice pieces to work with but it's obvious that they need a new quarterback (will most likely draft one in the first round) and a revamp in their offensive line all around. I'm also not too high on their coach / front office.

With that said, it's glad to have you on the Falcons bandwagon this year. :thumbsup:

[Agent-X-]

I agree that Edwards touchdown shouldn't have been overturned.

Having watched the game from start to finish, though, those were some pretty-darn-hard-to-justify penalty calls. Game changing penalty calls. I sincerely hope it's not like that ever again. Miami thouroughly beat the snot out of the Jets, and I know they won that game... but to think that if they hadn't is the thought that bothers me.

The Jets are a very talented team. They don't need a couple of missed deep passes handed to them. They played well and will play better games. They simply didn't play well enough to stay close with Miami, let alone nurse a lead in the final 2 minutes of the game.

Oh well.

[Andy G.]

I'm glad the Dolphins beat the Jets. I hate the Jets. Mark Sanchez and Rex Ryan are both giant turds.

It's going to be cool to see the Falcons on Sunday Night Football next week. I hope their defense plays like they did against the Dolphins and the 49ers. They're a young group, so they lack consistency. Last year they gave up tons of yards but were pretty good at keeping the opponents out of the endzone(12th in the league in points allowed I think). Opposing coaches and players always talk about how disciplined the players are, which points toward the coaching. Our front four on defense are tough to figure out. They have great games and they have games where it looks like John Abraham is the only legitimate player we have. Kroy Biermann is a second year defensive end from Montana. He was drafted in the fifth round, and he's been getting after the opponents quarterback this year. If we can get consistent pass rush from him as the year goes on, it will make things a lot easier on our secondary. There's a lot of speed and potential on our defense, but it's tough to say how far this team will go because of all the youth.

[Dreamscape]

1:00 Thoughts...

The Redskins lost to the Chiefs at home. That's...rather fun.

In the pick'em league, I wanted badly to go with the Texans. I even told BFH this was the type of game Texans would randomly win before losing to the Sacred Heart JV team next week. And then I played it safe and went with Ochocinco and such. Dumb.

I thought starting Stafford over Culpepper was a bad idea...I was wrong. The Lions suck, which is probably the opposite of a surprise.

The J'ville hyphens are pretty good. The rest of the team isn't.

I really should have started Farve over McNabb...and I should have started Ray Rice over Tim Hightower. Damn this game.

Go Saints! And they are pretty impressive. They made the Eagles and Giants look like also-rans. And when did the Saints sign Mark Brunell?

Seriously, Brady Quinn isn't better than Derek Anderson? DA has completed 12 passes in his past two weeks and Josh Cribbs has more attempts than Quinn. Either find out what you have with Quinn or trade him.

Tampa Bay can be pretty dangerous, though Carolina can be a big running team. And the way Delhomme is playing, they need to be.

The Redskins lost...just figured it should be said again.

[Wahoo]

The problem with the Redskins (same with the Cowboys)begins with the GM. He makes horrible moves. If I'm a 'Skins fan, the last person I'm blaming is Jason Campbell. He's run under multiple systems and weak o-lines and yet has still showed some improvement. You can't run a half decent playbook because the guy gets no time, and has no consistent playmakers on the outside. I would stick him and make a better effort to build around him.

[Hobbes]

Hard to believe, but the Raiders just beat the Eagles.

Yay! :D

[Dreamscape]

Bad day for the NFC East. The Giants lost to what may be the NFC's best team (and Washington, you have to miss Gregg Williams, don't you?), but the Eagles and Redskins lost to teams that are "awful." The NFL loves this, though. Maybe everyone will stop talking about the disparity in talent and coaching amongst teams and talk up "parity" again.

[Wahoo]

Bad day for the NFC East. The Giants lost to what may be the NFC's best team (and Washington, you have to miss Gregg Williams, don't you?), but the Eagles and Redskins lost to teams that are "awful." The NFL loves this, though. Maybe everyone will stop talking about the disparity in talent and coaching amongst teams and talk up "parity" again.


Yeah, I don't know how the Eagles lost today, but my guess is actually coaching. Looks like poor playcalling did them in, but I love it. I loathe the Eagles.


Side note: Jets are in OT with the Bills and just botched an attempt at a game-winning field goal.

[Dreamscape]

Maybe Sanchez should have stayed in school another year like Carroll said.

[Hobbes]

Yeah, I don't know how the Eagles lost today, but my guess is actually coaching. Looks like poor playcalling did them in, but I love it. I loathe the Eagles.
They lost because the Raiders defense just manhandled them all day.

[Andy G.]

I enjoyed seeing the Jets loose again. I didn't enjoy seeing the Saints win. Your boys are looking pretty good bravos. They have to be thought of as the best team in the NFC. The top three teams in the NFC are definitely the Saints, Vikings and Giants. I think the Falcons are the best team after that group.

The Falcons' defense always makes it hard on themselves, but they keep getting the job done. They're now third in the NFL in Pts/G(15.4). I don't know if they'll stay that high up in the rankings, but this has been the way they've played since Mike Smith took over. I was worried that last year was a lucky season for us on that side of the ball due to the difference in the number of yards they gave up and the number of points that were scored against us, but I have a lot of confidence in them now. Our players are very fast. We swarm to the ball and make big plays. The play calling has also evolved from last year. They'll keep us in every game. With our offense, that will translate to a lot of wins.

The Bears game was a lot uglier than I thought it would be. I don't think the Falcons' offensive gameplan worked at all. They thought Tony Gonzalez was going to be open over the middle against the cover two of the Bears, but the Bears weren't going to let it happen. Every week the opposing defense will have to pick their poison against us. Tonight, they let Matt Ryan hit the backs with short passes, and their aggressive zero-coverage approach cost them a touchdown when Roddy White took a quick pass all the way for a touchdown. I actually felt the Bears did a good job. Most of our success came with the no-huddle, which will definitely continue to be a big part of our game. Norwood was our most effective player. His explosiveness on the edges was perfect for the defense the Bears were running. We definitely missed him when he got hurt and had to leave the game in the second quarter.

I'm pretty high on the team right now, but I'm nervous about the upcoming games on the schedule. We're going to Dallas next week. Dream, Wahoo, Jan(did I miss anybody?) have the Cowboys been particularly good coming off the bye in recent years? Including the Bears, the Falcons play four of six teams coming off bye weeks. Anyway, I don't know yet which specific matchups will be most entertaining in the game. Maybe you guys can clue me in on your strengths and weaknesses. How's the offensive line in Dallas?

After that it's Monday Night Football against the Saints. I'm already excited about that one.

[bravos4evr]

I can't believe how well the Saints are playing! 48 on the giants? That's more than they had allowe in all the previous games COMBINED!!!

Hpwever, as a longtime saints fan I know that they have a knack for looking good and then folding like a cheap suit later on in Decemeber. So gonna keep my hopes up, but not going to start claiming they are the best anything yet!

However Drew Brees is gonna win the MVP, unless he gets hit by a bus!

[Agent-X-]

Saints. Dolphins.

Saints. Dolphins.

Saints. Dolphins.

This is going to be a good show down. Saints must continue playing good football. Dolphins are on the right track now. If one of them doesn't play good football, it's the other's game to win.

Good bye cupcakes and muffins... I hope the Saints are prepared for hard-hitting, hard-nosed football.

[Dreamscape]

The Saints have whipped both the Eagles and Giants, two very physical teams. I think they are ready for the Dolphins. It's more of a question if the 'Phins are ready for the Saints.

[Dreamscape]

I'm pretty high on the team right now, but I'm nervous about the upcoming games on the schedule. We're going to Dallas next week. Dream, Wahoo, Jan(did I miss anybody?) have the Cowboys been particularly good coming off the bye in recent years? Including the Bears, the Falcons play four of six teams coming off bye weeks. Anyway, I don't know yet which specific matchups will be most entertaining in the game. Maybe you guys can clue me in on your strengths and weaknesses. How's the offensive line in Dallas?
Last five games after the bye...
14-10 over the Redskins (Phillips)
38-17 over the Eagles (Phillips)
45-14 over the Titans (Parcells)
21-20 over the Eagles (Parcells)
10-26 to the Giants (Parcells)

I don't know if it means too much, but they have four consecutive post-bye wins under their belt. The biggest questions in my mind is, one, which Tony Romo shows up? While there is something to be said about the Falcons defense has far as points allowed goes, they are 13th in yards allowed so there is a chance to go down the field against this team. They give up a lot of first downs and if Romo can avoid the costly turnover(s), I like the Cowboys chances passing the ball more.

But what I love is the fact that the running trio for the Cowboys should be healthy and the Falcons are giving up 4.7 yards a carry. If the 'Boys establish the run early against Atlanta, they will have a great shot of sending the Falcons home with their second loss.

Defensively, the Cowboys face a team still trying to find their offensive identity in my book. But then, so is the Cowboys defense, that has looked horrible this year. 450 yards to the Bucs is glaring, but the yards to the Giants and Broncos in the two biggest games of the year are also pretty horrible. They need to keep the Falcons under 300 yards and again, try to force the Falcons to have to earn every yard in the running game because Atlanta has not done a good job running the ball consistently. Keep them to 75 yards and under and it forces the game on Ryan's shoulders. That's the best this defense can do.

I like the Cowboys to take this, but it depends on the Cowboys running game, the defense stopping the Falcons running game, and whether or not Tony Romo can fix the problems he has been having this year. And hopefully, the Falcons are already thinking about the Saints :)

[The Rap]

As a Giants fan I will say something but don;lt want it misunderstood because the Saints won the game because they were the better team by a mile. Their offense is the clearest definition of a "juggernaut" as they are relentless and keep coming at you.

That said if you look closely the main disadvantage the Giants had was that they were missing two cornerbacks in Alan Rossum and Kenny Phillips who are starters and also the two fastest defensive players on the team.

[Wahoo]

As a Giants fan I will say something but don;lt want it misunderstood because the Saints won the game because they were the better team by a mile. Their offense is the clearest definition of a "juggernaut" as they are relentless and keep coming at you.

That said if you look closely the main disadvantage the Giants had was that they were missing two cornerbacks in Alan Rossum and Kenny Phillips who are starters and also the two fastest defensive players on the team.

IMO, the Giants' secondary has never been that good. It's just been hidden by an incredible front seven which has forced QBs into poor decisions. Kenny Phillips is a pretty solid safety, and that definitely inhibited their schemes to a certain degree, but they just don't matchup well with the Saints' and I have a feeling if they meet again, the results will be similar.

Edit: And I think the Falcons cruise over Dallas. They will dominate the line of scrimmage and the time of possession. I predict an early Romo turnover which facilitates an early Falcons' lead 14-0, and while the second and third quarters see the Cowboys Trim the lead to 17-10, the Falcons' dominance of possession will lead to 2 4th quarter scores, and a 27-10 victory for the Falcons.

[Agent-X-]

The Saints certainly have the edge. They are a more complete team than the Dolphins. They have a better defense. Aside from that, it should be a good game.

An area to watch in this game will be Miami's secondary. If they step it up for this game, then we're looking at a different set of circumstances.

[Wahoo]

They are gonna have to step it way up, like to Mt. Kilamanjaro heights if the Dolphins are going to win that game.

[The Rap]

Brees vs what's his name? Enough said.

[bravos4evr]

I like my team, but I'm not gonna predict anything cuz the turnover and/or special teams bug can bite even the strongest teams on any given sunday.
That being said, I think the real key to this game is going to be how the Saints deal with the Dolphins offense. IMO, they way to deal with the wildcat is to bring in the safeties and force the QB to beat you with his arm. I'm not so sure that the Dolphins can do that.

[Agent-X-]

Brees vs what's his name? Enough said.

Like you haven't heard of Chad Henne. Don't be sour grapes because you got torched by a great, young arm. Ted Ginn beat triple coverage down field to catch a 60 yard throw. Rap, your claim is weak sauce. You're in the minority if you've not heard of Chad Henne. He has been well-groomed since being drafted last year to run this offense.

To everyone else:
The Saints will no doubt mount a good defense to try to contain the Dolphins offense. I'm also sure that their offensive plan includes scoring quick and often if Miami is dominating the clock on offense. That said, Miami has yet to mount an effective pass rush against a good O-line. Likewise, their secondary has been average at best. The D needs to step it up in this game, and the Saints probably know that a shoot out with Miami is a good recipe for a Saints victory.

Chad Henne has been consistently good [in both starts]. Because of that, they're packing a potentially elite offense now. This has the potential to be an outrageous shoot out.

[JanShan12]

I'm very excited to say that I will be at the Colts-Rams game Sunday! I could care less about the Rams (in fact, I enjoy seeing them suffer) but I could not be happier about having the chance to see Peyton Manning in person!!! I hope he lights up the Rams. I'll post pics after the game.

[bravos4evr]

No offense Jan but I could light up the Rams!!!!!
Hope you have a fun trip!

[JanShan12]

LOL No offense taken. It only makes me smile.

After the Cowboys, my family has always rooted for the Colts. My dad grew up rooting for them and that is his #1 team.

It's not much of a trip. I only live about 15 minutes from the stadium, so it will be a short trip. Hopefully lots of TD's scored by the Colts in the end zone we're sitting in.

[bravos4evr]

Yeah I sent that have a fun trip thing and then noticed you lived in St Louis( not to mention I still think of the Rams as an L.A. team!)

[Dreamscape]

Today on his radio show, Scott Van Pelt went off on the Redskins. Basically, his main grief was with Snyder and the GM and how, with a trip on Monday Night Football looming, the playcalls may be Campbell pointing at Moss and telling him to go long and for Randel El to run a button hook because the Sherm may be trying to run the offense on the fly. Van Pelt, I believe, is a Redskins fan and didn't hold back how upset he was.

[The Rap]

Don, I know who Henne is very well and still don't think he compares to Brees. You think he does? The openly hope the Dolphins have is for the Saints to play just so so and for the wildcat with Ronnie and Ricky to go wild. Keep in mind that the wildcat is basically a throwback to yesteryear and much depends on how up to date and modernized an opposing coach is. I have no doubt that certain guys like Bellichick etc will figure out how to stop it.

[Agent-X-]

Don, I know who Henne is very well and still don't think he compares to Brees. You think he does? The openly hope the Dolphins have is for the Saints to play just so so and for the wildcat with Ronnie and Ricky to go wild. Keep in mind that the wildcat is basically a throwback to yesteryear and much depends on how up to date and modernized an opposing coach is. I have no doubt that certain guys like Bellichick etc will figure out how to stop it.

Rap, that's a better response than your first one.

Consider this, that Drew Brees years ago didn't compare to the Drew Brees of today. Likewise, Chad Henne is becoming a better QB than the one fresh out of college. Players do that... go off and become better players in the NFL. And I feel confident in my claim because Dan Henning is also very high on Henne. He has seen more than his fair share of great QBs in his time, so... I tend to take his opinion with a little more than a grain of salt. He picked Henne. He knows what he has in the guy.

As for the wildcat, it's just a formation the Dolphins use. So what if it gets stopped. That just means something else has probably opened up. The Dolphins are anything but offensively inept.

As for the Saints, I hope they're good. Put up a good fight. It'll help this Dolphins team get better.

:banghead:

[The Rap]

Changing subject; One of the most disgusting things I have ever seen in the NFL and maybe any other professional sport is the Redskins ownership's treatment of Jim Zorn. You love him as an OC and pomoted him to head coach. Now you actually take away playcalling duties from him and hand them over to someone who has been out of football since 1984. When asked Zorn said that individual would give him the plays and he would relay them toJason Campbell, the QB. Almost immediately, word comes down from the top that the plays would be sent to the OC and he would pass them on to Campbell, clearly bypassing Zorn.

Dear Mr. Snyder; Did Zorn rape your daughter or kill your pet? Are you trying to get him to quit so you can save money? It is absolutely despicable what you are doing to a man who may not be the right one to coach your team. Esepecially when your team sucks so much anyway.

[Wahoo]

As long as Vinny Cerrato is at the helm in DC, the 'Skins will continue to struggle. From what I can tell, it's not Zorn's fault (though he's not a great coach), it's not Campbell's fault, it's Cerrato and Snyder's fault. Those guys continue to rely on an inefficient market to bring in their primary talent. I don't know who is responsible for talent evaluation in this organization but they should be canned. Campbell is a decent quarterback, and with a decent o-line and some offensive playmakers, he could have a pro-bowler IMO, but because they overpaid for him, they've yet to find that talent.

Their defense is good, but not as good as it once was. It's gotta be depressing to be a Redskins fan these days.

[Andy G.]

Don, I know who Henne is very well and still don't think he compares to Brees. You think he does? The openly hope the Dolphins have is for the Saints to play just so so and for the wildcat with Ronnie and Ricky to go wild. Keep in mind that the wildcat is basically a throwback to yesteryear and much depends on how up to date and modernized an opposing coach is. I have no doubt that certain guys like Bellichick etc will figure out how to stop it.
It's funny how every year, when a team starts off 6-0 or 5-0 or whatever, everybody talks about them like they're the greatest team the NFL has seen in the past decade. The Saints are really good, but you shouldn't have to be reminded that they're not unbeatable. You say the Saints will have to play so so as if it's so unlikely that they'll do that. They're going to lose some games. They might lose their first one to the Dolphins on Sunday. It's not going to be the greatest upset of all time if it happens.

[Wahoo]

It's funny how every year, when a team starts off 6-0 or 5-0 or whatever, everybody talks about them like they're the greatest team the NFL has seen in the past decade. The Saints are really good, but you shouldn't have to be reminded that they're not unbeatable. You say the Saints will have to play so so as if it's so unlikely that they'll do that. They're going to lose some games. They might lose their first one to the Dolphins on Sunday. It's not going to be the greatest upset of all time if it happens.

If the turnovers stop coming, the Saints will start losing. Their D gives up yards, but have masked that with turnovers (very similar to the Falcons). I think that's their main vulnerability. Having said that, once the Saints put up points on the board, the Dolphins have no way of countering it. Look at the game they played against Indy, they dominated the time of possession and still lost by multiple scores. I do like Chad Henne though.

[Dreamscape]

Cowboys defense looking its absolute best this year after that first drive.

[Dreamscape]

Wow, Romo.

Wow.

[Dreamscape]

Great win for the Cowboys. Defense looked very good and the good Romo showed up. After he took that hard lick on his attempt to run for a first down, it seemed to wake him up to the Romo he has been. So...thanks, knee to the head!

Now, if the Cardinals can surprise the Giants, that would be swell.

And Miami, you can't be a contender when you lead a game 24-3 and you end up losing 46-34. The Saints controlled that game. First, by playing bad and putting the 'Phins up and second, by playing well. Congrats, Miami. You sacked Drew Brees five times and intercepted him three more times and still lost.

[JanShan12]

Wish I could have seen some of the Dallas game, but only saw highlights on NFL.com. The stats showed Romo had a great game and Austin was impressive for the second game in a row. 4-2 feels good right now. Go Cardinals! :)


We had a wonderful time at the Colts/Rams game today!!! The stadium was packed with Colts' fans... probably 70%. Rams' fans were irritated from the beginning, but who can blame them. Peyton was... well... Peyton. He made amazing passes to guys who appeared covered, but he found that small window for the pass. Very impressive. The Rams were just bad. It's hard to go into more detail than that. They were just bad on both sides of the ball. Their special teams were actually decent, which was a surprise.

Here's a link to the pictures we took at the game. We watched the first half of the game about 30 rows up behind the goal post in an end zone and watched the second half 5 rows up from the field behind the Colts sideline at the 50 yard line... very cool!

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=151861&id=683571752&l=9bc276b263

Enjoy!

[Andy G.]

The Falcons got walloped by the Cowboys. Dallas was really impressive.

I don't know what exactly is keeping Micheal Turner from running the ball this year, but we just can't win without even a shred of a running game. Until yesterday, I just kept thinking they would come around, but now I don't know what to expect. It might be Turner, it might be the offensive line, I don't know. They're not doing a good job though.

Dallas played much better, obviously. Criticizing our running game is not my attempt to take anything away from the Cowboys. Impressive win from those guys.

Glad to see you had a good time at the Rams game Jan!

[Agent-X-]

Great win for the Cowboys. Defense looked very good and the good Romo showed up. After he took that hard lick on his attempt to run for a first down, it seemed to wake him up to the Romo he has been. So...thanks, knee to the head!

Now, if the Cardinals can surprise the Giants, that would be swell.

And Miami, you can't be a contender when you lead a game 24-3 and you end up losing 46-34. The Saints controlled that game. First, by playing bad and putting the 'Phins up and second, by playing well. Congrats, Miami. You sacked Drew Brees five times and intercepted him three more times and still lost.

I've edited my first response. I get that you don't have much respect for Miami. The truth is that they certainly gained the respect of many others. It was a tough loss. There were plenty of mistakes and botched opportunities by Miami, and the Saints made the best of many opportunities that came to them. I won't lean on the refs, but they certainly made matters much worse for Miami with some very botched calls--if you actually watched the game, then you'll have an idea of what I'm talking about. Either way, Miami beat on the Saints. The Saints didn't just come out playing poorly, Miami took it to them. Miami made Brees look bad. They made the Saints look bad. The defense answered the call. And what I saw that I really liked is that the Saints didn't roll over and die. They fought back, and they turned the momentum. It turned into a real dog fight, and unfortunately Miami's offense went flat thanks to excellent pressure from a stacked defensive line--that's the answer to the wildcat. Miami's O-line did show excellent progress in pass blocking. In the end, we dropped some crucial passes and got hit with some hard penalties.

Boil it all down, it goes into the record as a loss. You can't deny they gave the Saints the best fight they've had all season. The same goes for the Colts. Oh well. Tough break. You can continue to think Miami is just not that good. What does this say about the Giants? And how about the Cowboys? Yeah...

I'm proud of the Dolphins. They are getting better every week. They may make a push into the playoffs. I don't expect they'll beat everyone yet. Their day is coming.

[Dreamscape]

I've edited my first response. I get that you don't have much respect for Miami. The truth is that they certainly gained the respect of many others. It was a tough loss. There were plenty of mistakes and botched opportunities by Miami, and the Saints made the best of many opportunities that came to them. I won't lean on the refs, but they certainly made matters much worse for Miami with some very botched calls--if you actually watched the game, then you'll have an idea of what I'm talking about. Either way, Miami beat on the Saints. The Saints didn't just come out playing poorly, Miami took it to them. Miami made Brees look bad. They made the Saints look bad. The defense answered the call. And what I saw that I really liked is that the Saints didn't roll over and die. They fought back, and they turned the momentum. It turned into a real dog fight, and unfortunately Miami's offense went flat thanks to excellent pressure from a stacked defensive line--that's the answer to the wildcat. Miami's O-line did show excellent progress in pass blocking. In the end, we dropped some crucial passes and got hit with some hard penalties.

Boil it all down, it goes into the record as a loss. You can't deny they gave the Saints the best fight they've had all season. The same goes for the Colts. Oh well. Tough break. You can continue to think Miami is just not that good. What does this say about the Giants? And how about the Cowboys? Yeah...

I'm proud of the Dolphins. They are getting better every week. They may make a push into the playoffs. I don't expect they'll beat everyone yet. Their day is coming.
Well, the other thing that hurt the wildcat was Gregg Williams called for corner blitzes. When you corner blitz the wildcat, it forces the run one way, which limits the effectiviness.

I was a bit harsh on the 'Phins, no doubt. And I didn't watch the entire game, but what I did watch made me think the game was controlled by whether or not the Saints were playing well. The 'Phins defense had something to do with that, but once the Saints adjusted, the better team clearly came out.

Here is my main problem with the Dolphins. I don't believe they are capable of being a team that can come from behind. Not yet. I think Henne probably will develop into that type of QB, but I don't think they are there yet. Their defense, much like my Cowboys defense, shows flashes of greatness, but typically is not consistent/physical/talented/deep enough to be the type of defense that you can rely on to keep the game close.

I think the Saints are a great team, probably the best in the NFC and the Dolphins had a good chance at beating them. Thing is...the problems the 'Phins have...the Saints destroyed in the second half. Whatever problems the Saints may have, the Dolphins couldn't exploit enough.

[Dreamscape]

Were they really booing Jason Campbell during player introductions? Come on, it's not his fault he's the best option you have.

[Dreamscape]

I hate DeSean Jackson...damn you, Redskins.

[Dreamscape]

Ouch, Jason. That one is definitely on you.

[JanShan12]

I was happy to hear today that the Cowboys locked up DeMarcus Ware to a 6 year/$78 million extension. It runs through 2015 and has $40 million guaranteed.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d813b8d18&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

[Dreamscape]

God, I love to see Vick fail.

That probably makes me a bad person.

I'm okay with that.

[Agent-X-]

Tommy, I'll give it to you from a Dolphins fan's perspective on where and how it started going wrong.

In the later half of the second quarter, Miami was still in complete control. The Saints couldn't do anything on offense because the defense was getting penetration even when only sending 4 guys on the blitz. So the defense continued to run wild.

Meanwhile, after getting 24 points on the board, something happened to the offense, and it wasn't just Gregg Williams. The offense started looking flat. The Saints got a major break, landed with great field position, and got into the red zone. But Miami stopped the drive. Then the unthinkable occurred as the Saints were going to settle for a field goal to go into the half down by 18... Sparano called a timeout.... and Brees was seen arguing with the head coach on the sideline. They then went for the touchdown and got it.

In the second half, the Saints did just as you said. The problem with that strategy is that it isn't a good strategy against Miami... or shouldn't be. The wildcat did lose its effectiveness.... or Miami just didn't run a lot in the second half. Stacking the line the way the Saints did it would have meant that Henne can throw down field, but at least 3 or 4 Miami first downs were killed by penalties. Additionally, there was some awful dropped passes that are just inexcusable... a sign that Miami needs some better receivers. For whatever it's worth, Miami made some bad calls and bad plays. Really didn't like the playcalling from that point on. We were still ripping off 5-8 yards a run, but we were also getting stuffed on a few runs. Miami found itself in one too many 3rd and long situations. Offensive gameplan at this point was not good or just non-existent.

Even still, the defense continued to hit them hard, and Miami maintained a 10 point lead right on down to the last 4 minutes of the game. At this point, I have to acknowledge there were some really craptasticular calls by the referees that seriously hurt Miami's chances of maintaining the lead. These are calls the refs refused to overturn even on review... I don't care how bad the Dolphins were playing at this point, the refs may as well have just handed the victory to the Saints on the reasoning that the second half is all that counts towards the victory.

For starters, the fumble toward the end of the first half, by Bess, his knee was very clearly down long before the ball popped out. There's no argument to be had there. That put the Saints on the Dolphins side of the field and led to their first touchdown. Go figure.

2. Sharper's interception and eventual fumble into the endzone. I don't see how this is not a touchback. He fumbled it from outside of the endzone into the endzone and it was ruled a touchdown. Either way, Ted Ginn Jr. and the Dolphins sucked pretty hard to wind up with this play in the first place. Still, this too is inarguable. It was a fumble into the endzone. Touchback. Not a touchdown.

3. The penalty on Camarillo for attempting to the put the ball out of bounds with 2:15 left in the game. What kind of lame reasoning led to that being called an illegal forward pass? Sure, Camarillo did try to reach the ball out of bounds. It did leave his hands. It could subjectively be viewed as an attempted pass out of bounds... or an on purpose fumble. There is NO WAY that was an illegal forward motion with the ball. At best it was a lateral pass to the sideline. What kind of bogus call was that? Thanks for the third and long in an already tough situation.

The Saints are a better team, and they earned that victory. They just would not have won the game without those horrendous calls. Or, they just would have had to have made even bigger plays to get back into it. Either way, without those craptastic calls, the Saints have a much harder uphill battle to win it.

[The Rap]

Desean is an elite receiver so get used to it. As a Giant fan I am trying my bet to do the same thing. The guiy who seems to have saved the Cowboys is Miles Austin who is naturally gifted with size and speed and maybe the best hands I have seen in a long time.

[Agent-X-]

After another watch of the Dolphins-Saints game, I resolve that Miami actually is a freaking good match for the Saints. If they met again in the Superbowl, it would be a fantastic game.

[Agent-X-]

LMAO. Is this not blatant or what? And the review still didn't overturn it.

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs080.snc3/14742_660799969627_22606805_37453963_3866182_n.jpg

Who wants to tell me the Dolphins weren't able to handle the Saints? Pffft.

[Agent-X-]

A good summation for how I'm still feeling after the Saints game. If you still think the Saints handled the Dolphins, then read on. Or remain clueless.

It's funny when people say you can't blame the refs because you need to execute better or whatever. They fail to realize Ginn executed the strip perfectly and saved the TD except the ref screwed up and cost us 7 points the ball and time off the clock.

The play at the end of the first half ..... Bess catches a good ball and runs for more yards and gets tackled and they rule it a fumble. The week before the exact same play happen and the head ref explain since the receiver caught the ball and ran, then when tackled the ball moved while his knee touched he was down by contact (if it was only on the catch and the ball moved then it's a non catch but since the receiver establishes the ball and runs the rule is different). In Bess's case which was the exact same play it's a fumble therefore the ref screwed up.

N.O. then throws a deep ball and we tackle Colston outside the endzone with 5 sec left, not enough time for NO to set up and spike it so another play executed perfectly but then the ref decides it's a TD stopping the clock for a review in which it gets reversed but allows them to score more points, again the ref screwed up.

We executed alot of things perfectly....24-3 at the half...nope the ref screws up so it's 24-10.

Turn the ball over but get it back 24-10...nope ref screws up so it's 24-17

Tell me again someone please how those plays do not directly effect the end result of the game!!!!!!

I don't see any excuses I only see plays that the refs made mistakes allowing NO to get right back in the game and taking away all the momentum.

[Dreamscape]

...the refs didn't blow a 21 point lead.

Every team's fans think the fans screw them. Hey, I still think Champ Bailey got away with practically hugging Sam Hurd in the final seconds of the Broncos/Cowboys game, but here's the deal. When you blame the refs, you imply that you would have won if all the calls were perfect/went your way.

The Saints may have some help...but the Dolphins couldn't hold onto a 21 point lead. That's what actually happened.

[bravos4evr]

The Saints proved themselves a championship quality team with that comeback. My bandmates and I want to take full credit cuz at the 24-3 point we stopped practice and bought some beer. Then, on a whim, we shotgunned one like total teenagers leading to a Saints score. After the second half started, every shotgunned beer led to an ensuing touchdown!!!!

Seriously though, that was one of the finest examples of a coaching staff makintg the proper adjustments at half time. We couldnt stop the wildcat, we couldn't stop the defense getting penetration. But man in the second half, we secured the line of scrimmage and were able to stop the wildcat.

The fumble into the endzone was prolly a bad call, but the angles available to the ref on the review booth were so full of dolphins uniforms you couldn't see the ball!!! Plus when you lose by 12 points after leading by 21 I think it's kinda lame to blame the officials. The Saints made adjustments the Dolphins were unable to cope with the adjustments as well as the Saints stopped the turnovers.( which were why the Dolphins had the lead in the first place).

Looking at the Saints remaining schedule. I reckon they have really only 4 tough games left. The two with Atl, Patriots and Cowboys ( other games are 2 against Tampa, 2 against Carolina and 1 against the Rams and the Redskins. ) So at the worst the Saints are gonna be a 12-4 team IMO. I think they have a good chance at going 14-2 and making a real run at the Superbowl. But hey, turnovers and special teams gaffes can ruin an easy win as quick as anything so I guess we will see!

[Agent-X-]

The Saints proved themselves a championship quality team with that comeback. My bandmates and I want to take full credit cuz at the 24-3 point we stopped practice and bought some beer. Then, on a whim, we shotgunned one like total teenagers leading to a Saints score. After the second half started, every shotgunned beer led to an ensuing touchdown!!!!

Seriously though, that was one of the finest examples of a coaching staff makintg the proper adjustments at half time. We couldnt stop the wildcat, we couldn't stop the defense getting penetration. But man in the second half, we secured the line of scrimmage and were able to stop the wildcat.

The fumble into the endzone was prolly a bad call, but the angles available to the ref on the review booth were so full of dolphins uniforms you couldn't see the ball!!! Plus when you lose by 12 points after leading by 21 I think it's kinda lame to blame the officials. The Saints made adjustments the Dolphins were unable to cope with the adjustments as well as the Saints stopped the turnovers.( which were why the Dolphins had the lead in the first place).

Looking at the Saints remaining schedule. I reckon they have really only 4 tough games left. The two with Atl, Patriots and Cowboys ( other games are 2 against Tampa, 2 against Carolina and 1 against the Rams and the Redskins. ) So at the worst the Saints are gonna be a 12-4 team IMO. I think they have a good chance at going 14-2 and making a real run at the Superbowl. But hey, turnovers and special teams gaffes can ruin an easy win as quick as anything so I guess we will see!

If you watched the game, then you obviously know what I'm ill about. This isn't about fans blaming a loss on the refs. This is about the refs completely changing the outcome of the game over a series of about three horrendous calls. This is bad enough ... that ... it is getting acknowledged. Either you saw it and know what this is about, or you just didn't see it and don't get it.

What's lame is the total flow of that game was changed in about five minutes (the last couple of minutes of the first half and the first few of the 3rd quarter). There was a 14 point swing as a direct result of the referees. That's a 14 point comeback that did not exist without the referees totally botching the calls.

1st botched call:
Davone Bess catches a pass down field and runs for several yards. Major play for Miami. Besses knee is obviously down long before the ball comes loose. Saints retrieve the ball. Referee signals Saints' ball. Play is reviewed. Fumble is not overturned.

2nd botched call:
Saints then take advantage of turnover, throw deep, hit receiver. Receiver is down well outside of the endzone. Clock is running out fast with no timeouts left for the Saints. Referee makes a late touchdown signal suddenly. A challenge occurs, play is reviewed, receiver is obviously well short of the endzone, so the touchdown is overthrown. BUT THE CLOCK HAS STOPPED AS A RESULT.

The Saints then line up for a field goal, Miami calls a timeout. Saints then decide to go for the touchdown and get it.

3rd botched call:
Henne passes deep to Ted Ginn Jr. Ball is tipped by Ginn, tipped by Saints DB, and finally caught by another Saints player. Saints player runs it all the way back, but then the ball is clearly stripped out of his hands yards from the endzone. Ball bounces into the endzone and out of play. Referee signals touchdown for the Saints. Touchdown is challenged. Announcers and everybody all across the world are in acknowledgment that this is a touchback, and Miami gets the ball back at the 20. IN REALITY LAND, refs decide play on the field stands, Saints get the touchdown.

This all occurred within about 5 minutes of game time just before and just after half time. The Dolphins went from 24-3 to 24-17 as a result of these calls.

Acknowledged?

[bravos4evr]

First one , the ball was clearly moving before his knee went down. I don't think it was a bad call at all. Plus, the rule is there has to be indisputable evidence to overturn the ruling on the field. There wasn't

2nd one, he wasn't down well short of the end zone it was really close and at regular speed those calls are tough. It wasn't botched, because if they rule him down, the review booth is gonna look at it anyway to make sure he wasn't in. So either way the clock woulda stopped The mistake was Miami's coaching staff calling a time out to ice the kicker when that never works anyway.

the third one I referenced. They couldn't see when the ball came out because of all the dolphins players around the ball carrier. That picture wasn't from any of the cameras used by the review booth. So there wasn't indisputable video evidence to overturn it.

Yes it's still lame to whine about the referees when your team loses a 21 point lead and gets beaten by 12. You scored ten points in the second half and I didn't see any ref's tackling your running backs.

[Agent-X-]

First one , the ball was clearly moving before his knee went down. I don't think it was a bad call at all. Plus, the rule is there has to be indisputable evidence to overturn the ruling on the field. There wasn't

Wasn't even close. You better go watch it again. If I could share the video, I would. Knee is clearly down. Ball is clearly in control. As I stated before, this is inarguable. Same scenario from the previous week, with the Jets, was ruled down.

2nd one, he wasn't down well short of the end zone it was really close and at regular speed those calls are tough. It wasn't botched, because if they rule him down, the review booth is gonna look at it anyway to make sure he wasn't in. So either way the clock woulda stopped The mistake was Miami's coaching staff calling a time out to ice the kicker when that never works anyway.

Again, initial referees' call was not a touchdown. Late referee came running in and signaled a touchdown. It wasn't close. His knee is dragging the ground a yard away before the ball ever has a chance to break the endzone. How is this even up for debate?

the third one I referenced. They couldn't see when the ball came out because of all the dolphins players around the ball carrier. That picture wasn't from any of the cameras used by the review booth. So there wasn't indisputable video evidence to overturn it.

Yes it's still lame to whine about the referees when your team loses a 21 point lead and gets beaten by 12. You scored ten points in the second half and I didn't see any ref's tackling your running backs.

You know, there was a referee standing right there, clearly looking at Sharper as the ball goes bumbling out of his hands. It's incomprehensible how that play ever got confused as a Saints touchdown.

Ah well. Them's the breaks. Miami won an ugly one today, and that reinforces my belief that they are not there yet... they are still short a few significant pieces.

May the Saints have a good run toward the superbowl.

[Agent-X-]

Thanks Bryce. I can finally be quiet about that game.

[The Rap]

Bryce, worry more about Slaton than Daniels. Schaub is a gunslinger and will get his as long as Andre is healthy. The fumbleitis plaguing Slaton hurt me badly in fantasy because his line looked like he was huirt earlky in the game or something. Now they need his pass catchings skills out of the backfield.

[Andy G.]

Well the Falcons are now 4-3, but I'm feeling pretty good about the team again. I was worried coming into this game, because Dallas made us look like a pretender rather than a contender. We played well in New Orleans though. Both teams made a lot of plays. The Saints are the better team right now, but I like our chances at home against the Saints later in the year.

[luvdembravos]

Well the Falcons are now 4-3, but I'm feeling pretty good about the team again. I was worried coming into this game, because Dallas made us look like a pretender rather than a contender. We played well in New Orleans though. Both teams made a lot of plays. The Saints are the better team right now, but I like our chances at home against the Saints later in the year.


The Saints are scary good - and very fast - but I thought the Falcons held their own. It was an entertaining game.

The Falcons' schedule had been fairly brutal so far and things should be much easier for them during the second half. I don't know if they can close the gap on the Saints who seemed destined for the Super Bowl. Right now, I have to say that Atlanta is the 4th best NFC team behind New Orleans, Dallas and Minnesota. I thought about putting Philadelphia above them too but I just can't get over the fact that they lost to Oakland.

[The Rap]

I think Philly is 2nd behind the Saints. We will know better after tonight's game. I just wonder what effect the Eagles blitz will have on Romo. Also, the Vikings look great but there is always the chance Farve stumbles at his age. On a more personal basis, it was a bitter pill watching the end of the Giants-Chargers game today.

[Hobbes]

On a more personal basis, it was a bitter pill watching the end of the Giants-Chargers game today.
Bitter indeed. The Giants have been immensely disappointing this season.

[The Rap]

Well they deserved to lose yesterday after intrcepting and starting at 4th and goal and not only not scoring a TD but seemed to not even try to get into the end zone. Coughlin was quoted today that they were afraid of a turnover. If true then I donlt wonder about how they are doing lately.

[JanShan12]

So happy about the Cowboys game last night! They played well, especially for being on the road and Romo didn't crack under pressure. They focused on the run game and he got Roy Williams involved in the offense right away. Great game!!!

[The Rap]

The Cowboys look really good and their pass rush is exploding once again. I really fret for Aaron Rodgers' safety next week when has to face Ware, Ratliff etc.

[Dreamscape]

This is going to be a tough road game. Green Bay is in a bad place after the Brett Farve Part 2 went a lot like Brett Farve Part 1 and then, Tampa Bay blowing past them. Cowboys have to come ready to play and keep the season going positively. With home games with the Redskins and Raiders to follow, the Cowboys can really put themselves in a good place when the tough part of the schedule hits in December. @Giants, San Diego, @New Orleans, @Washington, and the Eagles.

The Cowboys are in desperate need of Anthony Spencer stepping up, though.

[The Rap]

They also need to NOT have a Tony Romo meltdown this year.

[bravos4evr]

The Saints are good and all, but man they sure like giving me a coronary entering the 4th quarter! I still see them finishing about 14-2 or 13-3 maybe 12-4 if they have home field locked up entering the last game or something. They have a real chance of being at worst 12-1 going into the cowboys game and if that's the case..... depending on the 'boys record, they might not even be playing starters against each other.

[The Rap]

Problem with what you're saying is that the Saints might even be getting better. Pierre Thomas looks like he finally has the job and he is much more talented than Bell or Bush. Brees is Brees and as long as he has all those weapons at his disposal any team playing them is in for a long afternoon.

[JanShan12]

Problem with what you're saying is that the Saints might even be getting better. Pierre Thomas looks like he finally has the job and he is much more talented than Bell or Bush. Brees is Brees and as long as he has all those weapons at his disposal any team playing them is in for a long afternoon.

Yet for some reason, the Rams are hanging with them with 7 minutes left in the 3rd quarter. We'll see how the rest of this game goes. The Saints should start pulling away, but the Rams are looking confident.

[The Rap]

Well the Rams basically showed something we knew all along and that is that on any given Sunday any team can stand up to another. What is s tunning me right now is how badly the Cowboys are doing. Rodgers has no protection and is running for his life on almost every play and the Cowboys are down 10-0? Packers defense is pretty good but shutting out Romo?

[luvdembravos]

Rodgers has no protection and is running for his life on almost every play ...

Sounds like a typical game for Rodgers. LOL.

[luvdembravos]

Checked the scores this morning and couldn’t believe the Patriots lost last night. I turned it off around 11 PM thinking there was no way the Colts could come back, especially the way Brady was playing. What was Bill Belichick thinking?

[Hobbes]

Checked the scores this morning and couldn’t believe the Patriots lost last night. I turned it off around 11 PM thinking there was no way the Colts could come back, especially the way Brady was playing. What was Bill Belichick thinking?
I watched that game and it was quite a comeback for the Colts. They needed two touchdowns with like 4 minutes to play, and they got the first one in a minute and a half. Their defense then stopped the Patriots and for some unknown reason Belichek went for it on 4th-and-2 from his own 28 with 2 minutes remaining. They didn't make it. His defense was tired, but you can't take that chance deep in your own territory with the Colts needing a touchdown.

It might not have mattered anyway, since the Colts had two minutes left with a timeout, but it would have been much more difficult. I imagine Pats fans were screaming at their TV after that 4th down disaster.

Still, it was fun to watch.

[The Rap]

I think Rodgers is awfully close to being a superstar. He puts up good to great fantasy numbers each week while running for his life. Reminds me of David Carr's situation when he was the QB in Houston.


Meanwhile, I am still stunned by Belichick's bad decision last night. Saying today that he thought they could get two yards and thus have the win sewed up is meaningless because one has to look at the downside when making decisions and giving Peyton just 30 yards with a bit over two minutes left is one of the worst potential downsides anyone can imagine.

[Agent-X-]

I think Rodgers is awfully close to being a superstar. He puts up good to great fantasy numbers each week while running for his life. Reminds me of David Carr's situation when he was the QB in Houston.


Meanwhile, I am still stunned by Belichick's bad decision last night. Saying today that he thought they could get two yards and thus have the win sewed up is meaningless because one has to look at the downside when making decisions and giving Peyton just 30 yards with a bit over two minutes left is one of the worst potential downsides anyone can imagine.

He gambled and lost. I'm not saying it wasn't a bad call, but he obviously didn't think his defense would keep the Colts out of the endzone no matter how many yards they had to go. In other words, he obviously thought their best chance was to pick up two yards and keep the ball...

In the end, everyone in Miami is :D right now.

[The Rap]

Yea, but Peyton from 70+ yards away compared to 30 yards away with 2 minutes left is no comparison. Plus it also showed a lack of confidence in his defense and that came from Teddy Bruschi, not me.

[Agent-X-]

Yea, but Peyton from 70+ yards away compared to 30 yards away with 2 minutes left is no comparison. Plus it also showed a lack of confidence in his defense and that came from Teddy Bruschi, not me.

You're right that it did show a lack of confidence in his defense to stop the Colts. Not to place BB on a pedestal, however I happen to think he's pretty bright. He knows his team. He knows the Colts. I have to believe he thought their best chance was to keep the ball.

Miami had a similar situation earlier this season where they were ahead by less than 3 points in the final minutes of the game. They drove the ball into scoring range, and on a pivotal 4th down, opted to take the field goal. I think everybody, including the Dolphins coaches, knew deep down this was a mistake. The Colts had been moving the ball with ease all day... and they marched down field passing the ball and put it in the endzone to win the game.

Should have gone for the touchdown on 4th down. We only needed a couple of yards to keep the drive alive. And the Colts hadn't stopped Miami all day...

I think what the problem is, in the case of the Colts, is that their offensive line is that GOOD. They are going to pass with ease on everyone.

[FrankEC]

Yea, but Peyton from 70+ yards away compared to 30 yards away with 2 minutes left is no comparison. Plus it also showed a lack of confidence in his defense and that came from Teddy Bruschi, not me.

I totally disagree with that statement. I think Bellichick was showing the ultimate respect for his defense by believing that if they didn't get the 1st down, the defense would be able to stop the Colts from 30 yds away.

I don't know what he was thinking at the time, but I am pretty sure it wasn't, "Our only chance to win is to get these 2 yards". It was probably something more like, "If we get these 2 yds, we WIN. If not, we've still got a damn good chance of stopping them and winning".

I loved Bellichick's call, and not just because I'm a Colts fan, but because it took balls. He had a chance to ice the game and he took it. And let's face it, if they HAD gotten those 2 yds, people would be hailing him as a genius right now.

[Dreamscape]

I'm going to side against the "Trust in Bill" philosophy here. You never, ever, ever give Peyton Manning the ball with 30 yards to go in that situation. Punt it, make him earn it, and if he beats you, all you can do is tip your hat to him. I know the percentages are high on 4th and short, but you have to play defense.

I see both sides on showing respect for your defense by saying "we can stop them" vs. showing no respect by saying they can't stop the Colts if the Pats give them the ball back. But this was a move a scared 14 year-old makes on Madden.

...but thanks, Bill! Your mistake kept the Cowboys from getting railed too much on sports radio.

[bravos4evr]

I think BB said after the game that the Colts had scored everytime they got the ball in the 4th quarter so he was concerned that if they got the ball back at all they would win the game. Kinda sounded to me like he had no confidence in his D!

[FrankEC]

I think BB said after the game that the Colts had scored everytime they got the ball in the 4th quarter so he was concerned that if they got the ball back at all they would win the game. Kinda sounded to me like he had no confidence in his D!

Well, I watched the game, but other than reading the headlines the next day, I honestly haven't been paying that much attention. If he did say that, then I stand corrected. I was just thinking at the time, during the game, it was the right call because he was going for the win. If he actually went for it because he felt they couldn't stop the Colts from 80 yards away, then yeah, he's a douche, and every member of that defense should be irate.

[Agent-X-]

Well, I watched the game, but other than reading the headlines the next day, I honestly haven't been paying that much attention. If he did say that, then I stand corrected. I was just thinking at the time, during the game, it was the right call because he was going for the win. If he actually went for it because he felt they couldn't stop the Colts from 80 yards away, then yeah, he's a douche, and every member of that defense should be irate.

:banghead:

I didn't see the game, but what BB is describing is the same thing I saw in the Dolphins game. The difference is that Miami actually took the field goal and aimed to win the field position battle... being less than 7 points ahead after that decision, I felt the Phins made a terrible mistake to settle for less than a touchdown, and looking back on it wish they had gone for it on 4 and 1 (or 2... it was short yardage to get the 1st down).

I understand why BB went for it... because he knew they had not been able to stop the Colts passing game throughout that quarter.

So, you think he's a douche...

[FrankEC]

:banghead:

I didn't see the game, but what BB is describing is the same thing I saw in the Dolphins game. The difference is that Miami actually took the field goal and aimed to win the field position battle... being less than 7 points ahead after that decision, I felt the Phins made a terrible mistake to settle for less than a touchdown, and looking back on it wish they had gone for it on 4 and 1 (or 2... it was short yardage to get the 1st down).

I understand why BB went for it... because he knew they had not been able to stop the Colts passing game throughout that quarter.

So, you think he's a douche...

Being a Colts fan, I've thought that for about the last 7 years ;).

I guess I didn't choose my words very carefully. I don't think he's a douche for going for it. I think he's a douche saying publicly as bravos suggested (which I don't actually know that he did) that he didn't think his defense could stop them. Not really a good morale booster.

[Agent-X-]

FrankEC, I see your point there. I want to think it has more to do with the Colts passing game and next to nothing to do with the Pats defense. Has anyone actually stopped the Colts on offense? I rest my case.

[The Rap]

This is like beating a dead horse. BB is a great coach and his call doesn't detract from that even an iota. None of us really know and maybe the players including Brady don't know. It could very well be that BB took the chance because the Colts had beaten the Pats 4 out of 5 games preceding this game.

[Dreamscape]

Maybe, but helping the Colts beat the Pats another time isn't a smart decision. He's a great coach, but he made a bad mistake. It may have not decided the game (the Colts could have won had the Pats punted, for instance), but it was not a decision a great coach makes. I don't think he would have been labeled a genius had it worked, either. I think he would have been labeled "lucky."

[Middle Man]

Yeah, well chew on this. :D

Statistical mumbo-jumbo (http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2009/11/belichick_has_m.html)

"Two sources have concluded that Bill Belichick, in a theoretical sense, made the correct call last night when he went for it on fourth down.

Brian Burke, who writes the Web site Advanced NFL Stats, used a play simulation to figure that the Patriots had a 79 percent chance to win by going for it and a 70 percent chance to win by punting. He then further explains his position.

Belichick also gains support from the ZEUS computer program, which produces probabilities for football coaching decisions...."

[The Rap]

I think this is all being overdone so to speak. It should be put behind us and let's go forward because who really cares?

[Andy G.]

The Falcons lost to the Giants in overtime, but I'm not really upset about it.

I was wrong when I said that the Falcons' tendency to give up a ton of yards but allow very few points was something they could keep up all season. They did it last year and in the first few games this year, but it has not been difficult for other teams to find the endzone as of late. The only reason this defense plays well enough to win is because of the coaching. I think we have fantastic coaches. We have some good players on defense, and they're young, but we don't have enough to be a serious title contender unless we go on a ridiculous hot streak come playoff time, and that's if we even make the playoffs.

Anyway, I'm not upset about the game today because Matt Ryan is awesome. He's been going through some growing pains. It's not that I've started to doubt him. I think it's stupid the way some Falcons fans are upset with his play. But with four minutes left and the Falcons down by a touchdown, Ryan drove down the field and hooked up with Gonzalez to score with less than thirty seconds left. It was just another reminder that he is going to be really good. I'm willing to be patient.

The Falcons now have two games left against the Bucs, one against the Bills and one against the Jets. They play the Eagles and Saints, and both of those games are at home. I am so tired of hearing about the Falcons never having back to back winning seasons. I just want them to at least win four of them, and I'm pretty sure they will. I actually like our chances against the Saints and the Eagles, because both of those games will be played in the stadium where Matt Ryan has only lost one game so far in his career. We can go 5-1 over these last six games and make the playoffs.

Either way, I'm very excited about the future. The Falcons' window is just beginning to open.

Congrats Hobbes. I hope the Giants' season continues to go up from here.

[Dreamscape]

You may not be upset, but I am. A Falcons win and a Bears win could have been huge for the Cowboys, who looked horrible for 58 minutes until they said, "hey, let Romo be Romo." Magically, that philosophy worked.

[Wahoo]

You may not be upset, but I am. A Falcons win and a Bears win could have been huge for the Cowboys, who looked horrible for 58 minutes until they said, "hey, let Romo be Romo." Magically, that philosophy worked.

I am really beginning to question the genius of Garrett. Over the last few weeks he has really shown an inability to mix his play-calling. It didn't help that Romo couldn't hit the broadside of a barn today or that Roy Williams continues to not make plays, but Garrett has recently demonstrated a tendency to fall habit to repetitive play-calling patterns. He isn't really keeping anyone off-balance with his calls. He certainly didn't fool the 'skins today. The run was working extremely well today, however neither he with his play-calling or Romo/WRs with their execution could to do anything to take advantage and keep the opponent off-balance. The 'Boys were extremely fortunate to pull out a W today, and there is plenty o' blame to go around. I am done with Roy Williams. Jerry, if you are listening, please don't bring another player named Roy Williams into Big D, because he's clearly destined to suck.

[The Rap]

Andy I like what you wrote and it is similar to what I have been telling Jets fans. They have an excellent OL, 3 very good receivers and a solid running game (especially if Leon Washington can come back). So all that is holding them back is the QB and the only thing holding him back is the lack of experience and growth.

[bravos4evr]

well the Saints continued their formula of looking like dooky in the first half and coming alive in the second..... I for one, am really looking forward to next weeks MNF game against the Patriots cuz it will show this team where they are truly at. If they come out and blow them away....well they have a chance at a historical season, if they get trounced.....well, it's time to re-think things. IMO, the likely answer lies somewhere in the middle they will either win or lose by less than 6 points... A tiny part of me kinda wishes they get their butts kicked a little bit so they will wake up and realize it's not gonna be a cakewalk!

[luvdembravos]

It's time for me to eat some crow on Brett Favre's comeback. The dude is definitely getting it done and his team looks great.

[The Rap]

The Saints-Pats game might be a shootout with Brady and Brees trying to outdo each other.

[Andy G.]

Matt Ryan will miss next Sunday's game against the Eagles, and apparently he could miss the rest of the season with turf toe.

Michael Turner may also miss next week's game.

And everybody's going to be talking about Michael Vick's return to Atlanta, as if it even matters. He doesn't even get to play. I'm positive the AJC will make this into a Vick vs. Ryan thing, if they haven't already. I don't read it.

I think I'm going to hate this week.

[The Rap]

Keep your chin up because Ryan and Turner are talented guys and will be back so just look forward to next year.

[Wahoo]

Yeah I don't blame you. Just remember that Vick sucks.

[Agent-X-]

Well, Miami has certainly shot their season pretty good. Losing to the Bills is pretty hard to overcome at this point. I really thought they should have played a much better game against them... but, hey, the Bills won that game.

Ugh.

[bravos4evr]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Saints win!!!!! eat crow!!!!! suckahs!!!

[Dreamscape]

Great win for the Saints...and it increased my winning streak to nine after an 0-3 start because I had Welker/Carney going against Brady coming into the game about four or five points down. With the win over the other 8-3 team, I'm in first. w00t

Oh, and the Saints look deadly.

[Hobbes]

I'm consistently impressed with Brees. He's amazingly accurate.

[The Rap]

Me too. One of the best all around QB's I have ever seen.

[luvdembravos]

The Saints are looking good and I'm hoping for a NO-Minn. match-up in January. San Diego is really coming on in the AFC.

[bravos4evr]

I am starting to think that we may see a Colts-Chargers AFC Champ. and a Saints-Vikings NFC Champ. Wouldn't it be cool if there was a meeting of unbeatens in the Superbowl and it goes to like double over time?

[The Rap]

I don't think the Saints can be stopped barring injury.

[Agent-X-]

I've been thinking that about the Colts for a while... and between the two, I'm convinced the Colts unstoppable offense will be the difference.

[Wahoo]

I do think the saints can be beaten. I think the Vikings have a more complete team and present match-up problems for them. The trick to beating the saints is to not turn the ball over.

[The Rap]

Nah, the real trick to beating them is keeping their offense off the field. This means that Farve should be letting Peterson run the clock out while going crazy.

[Dreamscape]

Peterson fumbles too much for my taste. Great athlete, but he definitely has issues.

[The Rap]

True but like they explained during the game his plusses basically dwarf his minuses.

[Dreamscape]

Fancy play-call by Garrett in that Romo fakes a handoff to Barber, then fakes a pitch to Austin, and finds Roy Williams open in the endzone.