Gamethread: Phillies @ Braves, June 30, 2009 (76/162) WIN

[sdp]

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2859/phillyatatlanta.png

Joe Blanton (4-4, 5.06) vs. Derek Lowe (7-6, 4.53)

[BigWorm]

Lowe's going to be fine. Return to normal today. Braves Win.

[BraveFan]

Nice crap lineup again with no McLouth and no Escobar.

Blanco
Prado
Jones
McCann
Anderson
Kotchman
Francoeur
Hernandez
Lowe.

I hope Yunel isn't being benched instead of b/c of injuries b/c benching your leading hitter isn't a good thing especially with this crappy lineup.

[sdp]

lol

What an awful lineup.

[Dreamscape]

Well, you usually don't need more than a little league lineup to score runs off Blanton.

[BigWorm]

What's the deal with McLouth? I thought he'd be back today.

[-Dr. Brave-]

lol

What an awful lineup.

How many times have we said that this year?

[CharlotteBrave]

Blanco is so bad in the field.... This is depressing.

[CharlotteBrave]

How slow is Kotchman? Seems like 90% of major league fielders would have scored from first in that situation.

One thing that frustrates me about this Braves team is that we just miss on SO many opportunities to get one run here or one run there. This is something that the old teams used to be so good at; nickel and diming every run, and actually taking advantage of opportunities.

[Hobbes]

Braves tie it up.

[Hobbes]

Prado with a homer to tie it up again.

[BigWorm]

Bases Sosaed with one out.

[CharlotteBrave]

Sure seems like we get a lot of solo shots... Just bad luck?

[JanShan12]

This game is going pretty well. I hate to jinx it, but I'm actually enjoying watching the game... which doesn't happen often.

[sdp]

Prado's 2-3 with a homer and you have him put down a bunt.

Makes a hell of a lot of sense.

[JanShan12]

Through 7

[bravestud]

And Gonzalez loses the game.

[Hobbes]

Crap!

[ATL2123]

Damn Gonzalez:furious:

[BigWorm]

Girating idiot.

[JanShan12]

Ugh! That's frustrating!

[Hobbes]

Tie game!

[ATL2123]

Nice Prado!

[JanShan12]

Thank you, Prado!

[Hobbes]

On the Phillies broadcast they just showed a shot of Bobby's disgust with Yunel for not running out that grounder.

[-Dr. Brave-]

Pitcher's running rules should apply for Escobar until he's healthier.

[ATL2123]

On the Phillies broadcast they just showed a shot of Bobby's disgust with Yunel for not running out that grounder.

What are the odds we have a new starting middle infield next year?

[-Dr. Brave-]

What are the odds we have a new starting middle infield next year?

5 to 3. Would be higher, but the Braves don't have a viable alternative for Escobar unless they want to try Prado there.

[Hobbes]

Very nice DP there begun by Chipper.

[Hobbes]

2nd and 3rd with one out!

[Hobbes]

Braves win!!!!!!!!!!

[-Dr. Brave-]

Braves have a 2-game winning streak!!!!!!!

[Hobbes]

Great night for Prado.

Blanco and Prado combined to go 7-for-10 with 3 runs and 4 RBI.

[BraveFan]

And Kelly Johnson just hit the trade market.

[BigWorm]

Prado is a major league second basemen. Legit.

[BigWorm]

Smoltzie looked good tonight in a rain shortened game against the Orioles. Good to see him pitching well.

[Chris_Moderato]

Smoltzie looked good tonight in a rain shortened game against the Orioles. Good to see him pitching well.

Agreed.

[sdp]

Per DOB, Bobby Cox declared Martin Prado the Braves' everyday second baseman.

[luvdembravos]

Per DOB, Bobby Cox declared Martin Prado the Braves' everyday second baseman.

It's about time. Now let's declare a new everyday right fielder.

[Devil Wears Prado]

ESPN just said that Cox said 'Prado is my second baseman.' Does that mean KJ is gone and that MP is going to be the every day 2B?

[sdp]

ESPN just said that Cox said 'Prado is my second baseman.' Does that mean KJ is gone and that MP is going to be the every day 2B?
Doesn't mean KJ is gone... but Bobby's had enough of him.

[Devil Wears Prado]

Doesn't mean KJ is gone... but Bobby's had enough of him.

So Martin Prado is certainly our every-day 2B man now? If that's the case... THANK GOD!

[KB 34]

I'm all for getting Prado playing time but I can't believe KJ rides the bench when Francoeur and Anderson are stinking up the place in the outfield. I'm rooting for KJ to be traded for his own good. This organization simply hasn't put him in a position to succeed and I believe another organization that does will get a .380 to .400 OBP 2B with 15 HR power, a real nice player to have around.

[BraveFan]

I'm all for getting Prado playing time but I can't believe KJ rides the bench when Francoeur and Anderson are stinking up the place in the outfield. I'm rooting for KJ to be traded for his own good. This organization simply hasn't put him in a position to succeed and I believe another organization that does will get a .380 to .400 OBP 2B with 15 HR power, a real nice player to have around.

Thats b/c we have a clear option to replace KJ while we would have to trade to replace either outfielder, that said I have no problem with Anderson b/c he has been really hitting good since he came off the DL at the beginning of the season. Now Franceour is another story.

[Dreamscape]

I guess our expectations are really low if a .748 OPS in 45 games since coming off the DL is "hitting good."

Martin Prado is definitely more in the line of what Cox and Pendleton want from their hitters. No, not production (hahaha), but aggressiviness over patience. KJ couldn't be the latter and he's so out of whack now that he's a detrimet to the team. Maybe KJ can thrive in a utility role if Cox tries him out in other positions. It's sad how much he's changed from the guy who looked like a future All-Star just two years ago.

[Andy G.]

Doesn't mean KJ is gone... but Bobby's had enough of him.
Man, you know how to word things in the most negative way possible. Bobby has stuck with KJ through these struggles up to this point, because he knows that Kelly has superior ability. This doesn't mean "Bobby's had enough of him". It means that he can't ignore Prado's offense at the moment, and with our offense, how could he? He likes Prado. He really likes him, and he always has. Still, he's given Kelly a lot of time to straighten things out this year, because he knows what he's capable of.

It's hard to watch KJ struggle like this. It's even harder to see him go from a guy who walked once every seven at bats to a guy who walks once ever fourteen at bats. TP has ruined his approach. I agree with what KB said about him if he's traded. He's a good hitter. He'll get on base and hit for some power. Maybe he just needs to get out of Atlanta to do it.

Changing topics a little, Prado is probably the funniest player to watch in the dugouts during games. He cuts up with everybody. It's cool to see somebody that goofy. They should be having fun, even when they're losing.

[luvdembravos]

It's hard to watch a player like KJ struggle like this. It's even harder to see him go from a guy who walked once every seven at bats to a guy who walks once ever fourteen at bats. TP has ruined his approach.


It's easy to blame someone else for KJ's failure, but ultimately Johnson only has himself to blame. But I agree with others that he needs a change of scenery. Another team would be smart to pick him up now that his stock is about as low as it can get.

I also have this gut feeling that he’s not too happy in Atlanta and wonder how much support he gets from his fellow players. When I saw the Braves play the Orioles recently, I noticed that in between pitching changes, every player was chatting with other teammates while KJ stood alone at second base talking to no one. When the Braves batted, there was always a group of 4-5 players leaning against the dugout railing chatting while KJ stood alone on the extreme right side. This happened over the course of several innings. Now, I realize I’m probably reading too much into what I observed …maybe KJ is just introverted … but it just seemed odd to me.

Also, when KJ made the bonehead play in the ninth inning last Sunday giving the Red Sox new life and an extra out, the TV camera panned the Braves dugout and simultaneously, the entire team reacted in disbelief … some players threw things and a few did a Jeff Bennett impersonation by pounding the dugout wall but all had a look on their face that said “WTF Kelly.” That play may have been the final straw for Cox.

[hoosjon]

I had noticed that, too. I hadn't thought too much of it at first, but I've begun looking to see if he EVER smiles, enjoys himself, or "hangs out" with his teammates.

When he was practicing defense for the move from LF to 2B, his wife said he had no hobbies and just practiced baseball for fun in the off-season. At the time, I was really impressed and psyched about his dedication to the game. Now, I wonder what he will do with himself. He certainly doesn't seem to be enjoying baseball.

[Andy G.]

I've wondered before if he gets along with the rest of the team, like luvdem said, but to say he's not enjoying baseball might be a little overboard. He's just a quiet guy. When the Braves were in Boston, a dugout camera was looking at Frenchy and KJ, with Frenchy standing closer to the camera. KJ looked at the camera and pointed at his nose then Frenchy's nose and, if you read his lips, he said something about the camera not being able to see him because Frenchy's big nose was in the way. It was actually really funny. John Smoltz used to call him the turtle, because most of the time he kept to himself, but every once in a while he'll poke his head out and make a joke on someone. That's all I think it is. He's a quiet guy.

[quick]

Prado is a fine looking player, but if Terry is coaching kids to be "aggressive" rather than to play the odds, he needs to go. OPS, OPS, OPS! Walks count! Make pitchers run up their pitch counts and get uncomfortable.

I wouldn't mind Blanco in either corner outfield position more often--no power, but he knows how to get on base and he plays good D.

I would still like to see Prado and Omar, when healthy, as everyday players.

All said, last night felt like an early '90s Braves game with the "comeback cardiac" kids.

[CharlotteBrave]

I don't think Blanco has good defense at all, he's fast, but doesn't seem to get a good jump on the ball, and lacks arm strength.

Very good baserunner, and even though he played well last night, I'm still holding out reservations on him. Solid utility player, but I'm not sold he's an every day player.

Great night last night though, two utility guys basically won the game for us.

[Lauren T.]

Very good baserunner, and even though he played well last night, I'm still holding out reservations on him. Solid utility player, but I'm not sold he's an every day player.
He played almost every day for us last year (144/162). What did you think of Gregor then?

[luvdembravos]

John Smoltz used to call him the turtle, because most of the time he kept to himself, but every once in a while he'll poke his head out and make a joke on someone.

LOL I never heard that one before but "the turtle" is a fitting description.

[Hillbilly]

He played almost every day for us last year (144/162). What did you think of Gregor then?

Can't speak for CharlotteBrave, but I thought he was a back-up outfielder getting more than his share of playing time because of injuries to Diaz and Kotsay. I thought he took bad routes in the outfield, and I thought he had good speed but poor base-stealing skills. I thought he would be a nice fit as a 4th outfielder for team that had some good power at the other outfield positions, which we did not, by any stretch of the imagination. Solid player...not a starting outfielder for a strong, playoff caliber team. Just my opinion.

[Lauren T.]

John Smoltz used to call him the turtle, because most of the time he kept to himself, but every once in a while he'll poke his head out and make a joke on someone. That's all I think it is. He's a quiet guy.LOL I never heard that one before but "the turtle" is a fitting description.
Pulled from my blog, a post dated last July...

From Wednesday's Braves Live -- you may have noticed that Smoltzie called KJ "The Turtle" when reading the lineup before the game. Jerome filled us in later......And to explain the whole Kelly Johnson "The Turtle" thing, I asked Kelly and he says he's a quiet guy, he's a little shy, he basically just keeps to himself when everybody else is out giving each other grief and then once in a while he'll poke his head into the crowd and throw a jab in there and then he'll pull his head back in and look around and see if it was funny or not. So I asked him if he wanted to be the "snapping turtle" and he said no, he's content to just be The Turtle.:D

[bravestud]

Prado needs to be in the lineup every day somewhere, and I'm glad to hear it looks like it's going to happen. He's amassed a .305 batting average and .806 OPS over almost a full year's worth of at-bats. 466 AB's may not be a ton, but it's enough to be somewhat significant. And the fact that Prado's done it getting very spotty playing time is even more impressive. The guy can simply hit, and we're in no position to be keeping hitters on the bench.

[CharlotteBrave]

He played almost every day for us last year (144/162). What did you think of Gregor then?

Didn't think he was productive enough as neither a fielder nor a hitter to be the Atlanta Braves starter in the OF. He had no power, a below .700 OPS, and really wasn't a great base stealer (I believe he had under 15 in 2008?). I was a huge fan when he first came up, but as most rookies do, he came back down to earth and was a mediocre singles hitter with a little bit of speed. I'm not sure of his CF numbers, but to me it seemed like a lot of balls dropped around him, maybe it's just because I'm so used to watching Andruw all those years, but he seemed like a below average OF despite his speed. (If someone can compare his OF stats to others and prove me wrong, please do. I'd rather know I'm wrong, and not take him for granted if my perceptions are incorrect).

Granted; last year was his first season, but I don't see a high ceiling for Gregor.

[Wahoo]

Man, you know how to word things in the most negative way possible. Bobby has stuck with KJ through these struggles up to this point, because he knows that Kelly has superior ability. This doesn't mean "Bobby's had enough of him". It means that he can't ignore Prado's offense at the moment, and with our offense, how could he? He likes Prado. He really likes him, and he always has. Still, he's given Kelly a lot of time to straighten things out this year, because he knows what he's capable of.

It's hard to watch KJ struggle like this. It's even harder to see him go from a guy who walked once every seven at bats to a guy who walks once ever fourteen at bats. TP has ruined his approach. I agree with what KB said about him if he's traded. He's a good hitter. He'll get on base and hit for some power. Maybe he just needs to get out of Atlanta to do it.

Changing topics a little, Prado is probably the funniest player to watch in the dugouts during games. He cuts up with everybody. It's cool to see somebody that goofy. They should be having fun, even when they're losing.

I agree with pretty much you say here, and if anyone is looking for any reason to fire Terry Pendleton, Kelly Johnson would seem to be Exhibit A. It also makes me wonder what a guy like Francoeur could do under some decent tutelage (not that I think he would be much better than an .800 OPS hitter MAX), but a part of me does think that Francoeur's problems are exacerbated by having TP as a hitting coach.

[Agent-X-]

Maybe if we put together a petition against Terry Pendleton with thousands of signatures... maybe the organization would feel pressured to dump him or make him a bench coach.

Then again, I have a feeling TP's approach is instituted at an organizational level. It's hard to shake that sort of paradigm if it's preached at every level.

[Chris_Moderato]

I'm still not sold that it's Terry Pendleton's "approach". I tend to think this is an organizational approach, and TP is just the easy scapegoat. Not that I'd be opposed to getting rid of him as hitting coach, but really, fixing this problem will require a shift in organizational philosophy.

[Agent-X-]

I'm still not sold that it's Terry Pendleton's "approach". I tend to think this is an organizational approach, and TP is just the easy scapegoat. Not that I'd be opposed to getting rid of him as hitting coach, but really, fixing this problem will require a shift in organizational philosophy.

I could agree with what you're saying except for this. We're seeing established major league hitters degrade as they take fewer walks and swing at bad pitches. Sooner or later, having someone yell at you to be aggressive is going to mess with your psyche as you go up to bat.

[Hobbes]

It may be TP's fault, it may not. There are different opinions about just how much of the team's hitting woes can be laid at TP's feet.

However, I can't see how anybody can claim that Pendleton is doing a good job, and he might just be doing a tremendously crappy job. So where is the downside in replacing him? If he's not to blame, then a new guy will do no better or worse, but if he is to blame, a new guy could have a very beneficial impact.

[Dreamscape]

Yes, there is validity to the "be aggressive" approach being an organizational problem. But you have to start somewhere. There can be the argument that the minor league coaches are chosen to mimic the major league coaches in the same position. When Leo was here, the same approach to pitchers was taught from top down. Once a guy has been with Atlanta for years, you would think the approach would very much be similiar to the guy who is at the top.

And no, I don't think if Pendleton is fired, suddenly everyone on the team will see a minimum .100 points added to their OPS. But I can't see the argument against Terry Pendleton being fired. One of the things I look at with the coach, whether it be hitting or pitching, is what is their impact on young players? With established players, they would likely not require so much tweaking to get their game going. A little here and there, but largely, not too much. Young players are in an era of adjustment and learning and their coaches would tend to be more of a source of information.

Pendleton's success with young hitters has left something to be desired. Sure, there have been some hits, but there have been a lot of misses. And sure, it's tough to shake off years of being told by the Braves minor league coaches to "be aggressive. Be a hitter!" But like I said...you gotta start somewhere.

[Hillbilly]

It may be TP's fault, it may not. There are different opinions about just how much of the team's hitting woes can be laid at TP's feet.

However, I can't see how anybody can claim that Pendleton is doing a good job, and he might just be doing a tremendously crappy job. So where is the downside in replacing him? If he's not to blame, then a new guy will do no better or worse, but if he is to blame, a new guy could have a very beneficial impact.'


Kind of what I've been thinking. While KJ and Francoeur's declines may or may not be Pendleton's fault, he gets paid to make hitters better. He isn't doing that. Maybe his approach as a hitting coach is not hindering anybody's performance, but he's not showing any signs of obvious improvement among hitters. To paraphrase Silvio Dante's advice to Tony about whether or not to whack Richie Aprile (or was it Ralph Cifaretto?), I really don't see any benefit in keeping him around.

[barvos4evr]

IMo the entire blame is on the feet of the Braves Org. as a whole. As long as they continue to chase the three run home run, yet ignore the modern approach to hitting that way( being patient working the count waiting for you pitch...etc) they will continue to have problems developing young hitters ( unless they are very talented).
I am befuddled that the entire baseball world didn't switch the minuted the Red Sox won the WS to be honest!

[Chris_Moderato]

Yes, there is validity to the "be aggressive" approach being an organizational problem. But you have to start somewhere.

Like I said, I'm not opposed to telling TP to hit the road. I'd just be worried the shift would stop there, that the Braves would decide that TP was the whole problem, not just a part of the problem.

[Wahoo]

There's a simple solution to ensure that we do take care of this problem: Fire everyone. Kick everyone to the curb and start from scratch.