Braves Should Sign Prado To Extension

[BFH]

The Atlanta Braves have no reason to show a sense of urgency when it comes to the status of Martin Prado's contract. They are in no danger of losing him as he was arbitration eligible for the first time in 2011 and could be retained through the same process in each of the next two seasons. The Braves have every right to take their time and see how things play out with the rest of the roster before considering signing Prado to an extension which would keep him in Atlanta beyond his arbitration eligible seasons.

However, assuming Prado picks up where he left off and continues to boost his 2011 statistics, the time to begin contract talks with Prado may be sooner than later.

My proposition is for Frank Wren to convince Martin Prado to forgo the arbitration process next winter and sign an extension with the Braves that would keep him in Atlanta beyond the two years that we are guaranteed to retain his services.

.....

Rest of the article provided in the link below.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/762688-atlanta-braves-frank-wren-should-sign-martin-prado-to-extension-before-2012

I think it'd be a damn good idea, honestly. Regardless of where he's playing on the field, no one can deny that when Prado hits, the Braves tend to win. He's as important to this team's lineup as Brian McCann is, IMO.

Hopefully Frank Wren has plans to get this done next winter.

[bravos4evr]

I'd be willing to sign him to an extension equal to McCanns to be honest. Especially if Chipper hangs em up and Prado gets to settle in at 3rd.

[BFH]

I'd be willing to sign him to an extension equal to McCanns to be honest. Especially if Chipper hangs em up and Prado gets to settle in at 3rd.

For what it's worth, Bravos.

McCann's contract needs to be compared to the one I'm proposing or Prado in context of arbitration years.

McCann's contract is a 6-year deal with a 7th year option, but you have to keep in mind that 2 of those seasons where pre-arbitration years.

In McCann's first arbitration eligible year he earned $3.5M. In his second, it gave him $5.5M. In the third (this season), it gives him $6.5M. In what would be his first year eligible to be a free agent, McCann's going to earn $8.5M. Then the Braves can keep him for the 2nd free agent year at $12M.

Here is how McCann's pay is going to compare to the one Prado would get from me. (Only including the arbitration eligible years and on)


McCann's salaries Prado's salaries
1st year arb eligible - $3.5M $3.1M
2nd year arb eligible - $5.5M $5.0M
3rd year arb eligible - $6.5M $6.0M
1st year FA eligible - $8.5M $8.0M
2nd year FA eligible - $12.0M $11.0M
3rd year FA eligible - N/A $11.0M


It's basically the same in terms of cash, it even guarantees him more money than Mccann in the long run. With McCann's next deal, that'll definitely change...but this deal is basically on par with what we gave McCann...and oddly enough, I didn't even plan it that way. It's just the way I drew up the numbers compared to other peers around the majors at his old position where I felt he'd be compensated best.

[bravos4evr]

a know, I may be crazy, but I'd offer McCann a 10 year $150mill deal (including his option year) kinda like a cheaper Tulowitski deal

Yer Prado contract looks fair to me

edit: I thought his option was for next year, so change my above offer to 8 years $125 mill plus a team option(including his option year as it auto vest with new contract)

[bravos4evr]

2013-$12 mill
2014-$15mill
2015-$15mill
2016-$15mill
2017-$15mill
2018-$15mill
2019-$17mill
2020-$19mil
2021-team option of $19mill with $2 mill buyout

Yeah he will be 36 or so at the end of this, but man... to lock him up long term would be great. Especially if he ends up moving to first whenever Freeman leaves for FA.

[BFH]

I don't disagree on extending McCann if we can manage to get him to do so within the next year or two before he hits free agency.

I'm not sure I'd go as long as you suggest, though. He may also be a person we approach during the winter for an extension.

The more I study it, the more I find. Cot's says McCann's actually got bonuses that can increase his salary by $3M based on silver sluggers, gold gloves and all-star selections between 2007 and 2011. Considering his success, he'll likely earn more in what would be his first season of free agency. Yet, it'll still be a cheaper rate than what he would have if he hit the market.

That said, during the winter, perhaps we can approach McCann as well. Tell him we'll guarantee his 2012 option at $12M as part of an extension. It'd be a good place to start. From there, I go in smaller increments than you suggest, though. As much as I love McCann and want him in Atlanta for a long, long time, I can't get behind a 10-year deal for a catcher, even if plans are to move him to 1B. There's just no telling how much wear and tear there will be on his body by the time he reaches even the middle of such a deal.

The difference between McCann and Tulowitzki is the positions they play. You hand Tulo a 10-year deal because you could move him to 3B if his legs start to give out on him and his defense heads down hill. It's a relatively easy move to make. Moving from catcher to 1B isn't exactly the same thing, though. I know it's easy to think anyone can play 1B...and McCann very well could, but it's not such an easy transition for all parties; Mike Piazza, Ken Caminiti and even Nomar Garciaparra could attest to that.

[bravos4evr]

Yeah, I misunderstood the remaining time on his contract. That's why i changed it to an 8 year deal (including his option year) That would put him at 35 and right around the time catchers who can hit start relocatingg, if they havn't already.

[HomerTheBrave]

"Marteen" is my kind of player, doesn't mind getting dirty,doesn't mind where he plays,goes the other way with 2 strikes and plays with passion.
Doesn't walk as much as we'd like but makes it up with making good contact.


Prado is the kind of player you never let go......simple as that

[Andy G.]

I'm completely on board with this as well. As I said earlier this season, Prado is entering his prime now and is the exact type of player the Braves should be interested in signing long term.

As far as third baseman go, he's not in the top tier, but he's right at the top of the second tier, meaning we won't have to overpay for his services because of his status as a household name or because he's hitting thirty-something homeruns a year. I really hope Wren gets this done during the offseason.

[bravos4evr]

I'm completely on board with this as well. As I said earlier this season, Prado is entering his prime now and is the exact type of player the Braves should be interested in signing long term.

As far as third baseman go, he's not in the top tier, but he's right at the top of the second tier, meaning we won't have to overpay for his services because of his status as a household name or because he's hitting thirty-something homeruns a year. I really hope Wren gets this done during the offseason.

I hate to say it, but I really hope Chipper hangs em up after this season. We could really use the extra $$$ to get a name power hitting LF. Move Prado to 3b and we'd be set.Even with Gonzo back at SS til Lipka or whomever is ready in 2013.

[Freddy_Ballgame]

McCann is worth extending but not for 10 years! Most catchers would be incredibly lucky to play the position for 10 years, much less get an extension that long. I think I would ask him if he could play thirdbase and give that a look. His hitting may inprove even more and his career could be extended by getting him out from behind the plate.
Prado deserves consideration, but I would wait before rushing into another Uggla-type signing. As good as Prado has been, where is he? In the minors, rehabbing an injury. Also, even considering offense being down throughout the ML, his production has dropped off, as well. It must just be me, but I was not that impressed with his play at third base. I think the sensble approach with Prado is to see how he rebounds from this injury, and see if his numbers go back up where they were the last coupla seasons. Do we really want to tie up another guy and regret it?

[bravos4evr]

Thats what we are talkin bout Freddy. During the offseason, or perhaps next offseason.

Oh and i amended the McCann extension to only 7 years beyond his option year. The guy can hit and even Piazza played that long at catcher. (and he really stunk back there)

[BFH]

McCann is worth extending but not for 10 years! Most catchers would be incredibly lucky to play the position for 10 years, much less get an extension that long. I think I would ask him if he could play thirdbase and give that a look. His hitting may inprove even more and his career could be extended by getting him out from behind the plate.
Prado deserves consideration, but I would wait before rushing into another Uggla-type signing. As good as Prado has been, where is he? In the minors, rehabbing an injury. Also, even considering offense being down throughout the ML, his production has dropped off, as well. It must just be me, but I was not that impressed with his play at third base. I think the sensble approach with Prado is to see how he rebounds from this injury, and see if his numbers go back up where they were the last coupla seasons. Do we really want to tie up another guy and regret it?Freddy,

First, I highly doubt McCann would be able to play 3B. I know Chipper does, but when you watch McCann move, he doesn't have the initial first step that even Chipper does. I know it's an unproven theory...but I think he'd be a terrible 3B. If there's going to be a place to move him, it's going to be first base like Bravos mentioned. Whether or not he can handle such a change is another story, though.

As for Prado, I don't think you can point towards his staph infection as an "injury". In fact, you can't even look at his oblique injury from last season as significant. His "injuries" have been freak occurrences. Folks get infections doing less than playing ball everyday. Folks seem to tweak their obliques getting out of bed nowadays. Now...if you want to talk about worrying about injuries, you worry about Heyward and his thumb and shoulder issues. Those are real places to concern over extending a guy, as I stated in my article.

Also, I gave statistics this season in Braves' wins and losses. Prado's hitting like a batting champion in wins and below the mendoza line in losses. I admitted, using that particular statistic, the struggles of the offense could also be blamed on Prado. However, you can't deny the Braves do live and die by Prado's production. That alone should be rather telling as to how important he is to the lineup and our success. The Braves clearly need Prado just as much as they need McCann.

And no, Freddy. This is not another Uggla-type signing. In fact, this is to AVOID Prado's situation becoming an Uggla-type signing. Signing Prado now gives him more upfront, but less in the long term. It is a win-win situation for the Braves for now and in the future, as we'll have enough to pay him upfront and will benefit from having him signed below market in the future.

In fact, I'd like to point out that I've been one of Prado's biggest skeptics. I do highly doubt his ability to be a difference maker in the lineup. However, no matter how hard I fight to reserve my trust, Prado keeps fighting to gain it. I'd also like to point out a statistic you may be overlooking.

You state that his stats are down this year, but I'd like to point out that they are down because of a span of 115 ABs in April where he hit .261, .304, .391. However, we all know it's completely unfair to judge a player's value based on one month's worth of plate appearances when the rest of his career he has been an .800+ OPS contributor. As in the Joe Nathan discussion between Bravos and I in the trade rumors threat, it's irresponsible to judge a player's worth to you at the current moment of struggle when the rest of his career he has been good.

Is Prado perfect? Hell no. Is he worth signing to the suggested deal? Definitely.

Besides, who the hell else are we going to sign to extensions? We can't yet trust Heyward's health, we're not sure if Kimbrel will continue to throw strikes (although, it's looking great, I must admit), and we know for a fact we're not going to be able to sign Jurrjens or Hanson to team-friendly deals like this with Boras in the fray. Prado's the perfect candidate to extend of all "worthy" players on our roster. Unless, you know, you'd like to sign McLouth for cheap since his value's at rock bottom.....

[Freddy_Ballgame]

I respect our right to see things a little differently. The Braves haven't been living or dying with Prado much lately. I'm not trying to discount what all Prado brings to the team, just suggesting he is replaceable, as all ballplayers are. This team, as with any other team, cannot rely on one man to be the end-all. The Braves have shown they don't, by playing winning ball in Prado's absence. They are overcoming Chipper's decline and they are overcoming Prado's absence. They are producing enough to win, and that's what counts.
(The line about McLouth was uncalled for. We as fans, all share the same amount of accumulated ML front office experience. It suggests that all we do is share our opinions. I don't know how to gauge who has more right to their opinions.)

[BFH]

I respect our right to see things a little differently. The Braves haven't been living or dying with Prado much lately. I'm not trying to discount what all Prado brings to the team, just suggesting he is replaceable, as all ballplayers are. This team, as with any other team, cannot rely on one man to be the end-all. The Braves have shown they don't, by playing winning ball in Prado's absence. They are overcoming Chipper's decline and they are overcoming Prado's absence. They are producing enough to win, and that's what counts.I respect your opinion, Freddy.

I even stated how I doubt Prado, probably more than you do. However, I do feel his statistical link to Braves wins and losses prior to his infection are significant. If you look at the time since Prado has gone on the DL, I'm sure you'll find that Brian McCann has been hitting in Braves wins and being shut down in Braves losses. I'm pretty confident in that, actually, and I will look that up if I can on this poopy internet connection I have today.

I won't disagree that it's a team effort and that one man can't carry a franchise on his back. However, I still think signing Prado would be a great thing to do.




(The line about McLouth was uncalled for. We as fans, all share the same amount of accumulated ML front office experience. It suggests that all we do is share our opinions. I don't know how to gauge who has more right to their opinions.)In my time away, I also forgot you don't enjoy playful sarcasm. So apologies for that. I'll remember to be blunt and to the point with you from here on out.

I was simply stating that of all the worthwhile players we can extend, Prado is the both the most deserving and most likely open to discussion.

I'd also like to state that I'm not suggesting just handing out an undeserved extension either. You stated it yourself. All players are replaceable. However, if that were the case, why extend anyone ever? Simply put. You keep those are are consistent producers. Prado is a consistent producer.

[bravos4evr]

I think he was trying to be funny Freddy.... maybe in a smarmy way..... but I may have his dander up due to the Nathan thing...lol

[BFH]

My internet today was so gracious as to allow me to pull up the game logs for McCann this season.

Since Prado's placement on the DL on June 9th, he has gone 29 for 91 for a .319 average.

That alone has been a big portion of why the Braves have experienced a lot of success without Prado's presence atop the lineup. Yet, like I alluded to, there is a pretty significant split in Braves wins and losses.

In Braves wins, McCann has gone 24 for 63 for a .381 average. In Braves losses, he's 5 for 28 for a .179 average. The Braves are also 4-1 in games where McCann does not play at all.

I know it's a small sample size, but that's pretty telling as well. Where Prado carried the team's offense early in the season when McCann's power stroke was dormant, the Braves lived and died by his production. In the games since Prado's DL stint began, McCann has thrown the team over his back and carried them to within arm's reach of the Phillies in the division.

I'm in no way suggesting Prado's better than McCann and worth more to this team. I'm simply saying I feel his value is just as important to the team's success.

There are certain types of people in the game, the special ones, that everyone seemingly rally around. Some are managers like Cox and Charlie Manuel and what not. Some are players like McCann and Tulowitzki and whomever. While not in the same exact impact class as the latter names mentioned, the stats don't lie about the Braves seemingly playing up to and down with Prado, just as they do with McCann.

[HomerTheBrave]

Wow, shame on whoever bashes Prado....last year's all-star second baseman.

Unreal..

[bravos4evr]

If Chipper hangs em up and Prado moves to 3rd in 2012, who do we put in LF? Should we go after Quentin? Use JJ to get Kemp and stick Schafer in LF to create an uber defensive duo out there? Get creative and try and pry Justin Upton from the D-Backs with young arms? (wouldn't Upton,Freeman and Heyward batting 3 in a row be awesome?)
I looked at the FA list for OF'ers next year and it's just crawling with 4th OF'ers and older players hoping to lacth on. No one worth dropping any real $$ on. Maybe BFH has looked at the potential available bats?




edit: I'm gettin ahead of myself.... but I do love this stuff so....

[BFH]

If Chipper hangs em up and Prado moves to 3rd in 2012, who do we put in LF? Should we go after Quentin? Use JJ to get Kemp and stick Schafer in LF to create an uber defensive duo out there? Get creative and try and pry Justin Upton from the D-Backs with young arms? (wouldn't Upton,Freeman and Heyward batting 3 in a row be awesome?)
I looked at the FA list for OF'ers next year and it's just crawling with 4th OF'ers and older players hoping to lacth on. No one worth dropping any real $$ on. Maybe BFH has looked at the potential available bats?I covered my best idea in your thread about Jurrjens, the future of the SS position and 2012.

If Chipper decides to retire, we can shift Prado to 3B and go after that LF.

Of course, I'm of the opinion that Julio Teheran will absolutely be part of the 2012 rotation and we'll be "forced" to move a starter. I say "forced" with the quotations because the urgency will be there, but with so much quality top to bottom we'll have our options as to what we'd like to do.

In that other thread you posted and discussed shortstop options, I suggested one of my favorite ideas...in which I re-sign Alex Gonzalez for a year with an option for '13, trade Jurrjens to the Reds for Yonder Alonso and a slew of prospects and perhaps a pitcher like Travis Wood and send that package to LA for Kemp and maybe a reliever like Hong Chih Kuo. The semantics of it would still need to be hammered out, but I feel it's a real possibility.

The other thing we can do is send Lowe packing along with $7.5M for a prospect or two (nothing overly significant, but might be interesting) and use the freed up salary to land a veteran reliever, some bench help and perhaps an under the radar type signing of a guy like Josh Willingham.

What it comes down to is a question of quality here. If you are willing to trade quality, you are going to get quality for your offense. If you aren't, then you're going to have to do the same on offense and piece it together with good "fit" types like Willingham who has always displayed strong on-base skills to go along with 20 HR power.

[bravos4evr]

Yeah I pretty much came to the conclusion that re-sgining Gonzo was our best course of action as well for SS. And I, of course, love the idea of Kemp. So you are saying go after Willingham as well with whats remaining of Lowe's $$$? So our OF would be, Willingham,Kemp and Heyward? Guess we make Schafer the 4th OF'er then eh?

Prado
Heyward
Kemp
McCann
Uggla
Freeman
Willingham
Gonzo

Hmm.....that looks decent! I bet that's prolly right around present payroll too! (Assuming stuff like arby , bullpen additions and the loss of Chip,mclouth's,KK and half of Lowe's $$$)



In fact, the offensive additions would likely overcome the loss of JJ. (cuz It's doubtful Juilo "The Terror" Teheran will be as good as JJ his rookie year).

Guess rotation is;

Hanson
Hudson
Beachy
Teheran
Minor ?

[BFH]

I'm pretty much saying the situation in LF comes down to who you're trading: Lowe or Jurrjens.

Lowe provides financial relief in 2012 which can be used to bolster other parts of our roster. It is the other benefit that comes from trading him, other than being able to insert Teheran into the rotation. The money save there could be used to sign Willingham on a one-year make good deal as well as to bring back Infante or sign another veteran utility infielder and also to bring in a 4th outfielder that's going to be worth a damn.

In either alignment, Schafer would still be our centerfielder. We'd use him everyday for his defense, primarily. You know, then again...we could still acquire Bourn at the deadline and make this work, as I suggested in that thread. Just saying.

It's more a situation of either/or, but not necessarily both. The 2012 rotation, in my mind's eye, will feature only one of Jurrjens or Lowe. The easy choice to rid of is Lowe. He's the weakest link, but where you skimp and get greedy there, you're going to have to skimp on offense as well and go land a Willingham type looking to rebound next year. If you trade Jurrjens, you get yourself an impact guy while losing an impact guy in your rotation. It's just a matter of how much you value Jurrjens and if there's anyone you'd be willing to trade him for.

[bravos4evr]

I'd honestly be willing to trade both of them IF
A) we could get a nice basket of prospects for JJ
B) Lowe gets moved for something half decent for us picking up half his $$$
C) we had an agreement ahead of time for a window of extension time with Kemp
D)Chipper retired

But moving Lowe alone is worth it just for the free $$$ Heck, if Chip retired we'd likely have $30 mill off the books before arby and raises... (thats assuming some sort of $4mill settlement with Chipper) We may be able to dream a bit bigger than Wllingham.

[BFH]

I'd honestly be willing to trade both of them IF
A) we could get a nice basket of prospects for JJ
B) Lowe gets moved for something half decent for us picking up half his $$$
C) we had an agreement ahead of time for a window of extension time with Kemp
D)Chipper retired

But moving Lowe alone is worth it just for the free $$$ Heck, if Chip retired we'd likely have $30 mill off the books before arby and raises... (thats assuming some sort of $4mill settlement with Chipper) We may be able to dream a bit bigger than Wllingham.I caution that moving both will test the depth of our system and possibly strain it.

The reason we are in the great position we are in is because we've stock piled pitching, much of it established over time.

Asking both Teheran and Minor or even Delgado or Medlen to be big parts of the 2012 rotation is a lot to ask of any of them. That is why I say only one will be traded.

I'd trust a rotation of Hanson/Hudson/Jurrjens or Lowe/Beachy/Teheran a heck of a lot more than I'd trust Hanson/Hudson/Beachy/Teheran/Medlen or Minor.

In fact, let me throw another variation into the mix. Let's assume Beachy finishes respectably. He'd have 5 years of retention on him at the end of the year and any acquiring team would probably pay up a young equally retainable hitter for him.

I'll admit I just thought of this, but right off the top of my head I'll say the Reds have Chris Heisey who is at the same juncture in his career as Beachy. Heisey will absolutely have to get some more playing time to prove he can continue hitting major league pitching, but Heisey was a name I targeted to supplement McLouth this past winter. He's got a pretty nasty split of home and away right now which is a big concern of mine, but it wasn't so apparent last season.

With that being a pretty poor example, I'm racking my brain and I'll also suggest Rasmus of the Cardinals to play center.

Hell, we might be able to use Beachy as the centerpiece to a Kemp deal without involving a third team.

I know that'll be unpopular to a lot of folks...but Beachy did come out of no where and he's sure to draw a lot of interest just as Jurrjens will. It'd be a way to land a younger and cheaper bat that we can retain with no imminent solutions in left field if Chipper retires and forces Prado to 3B.

[bravos4evr]

I don't kno why I waste my time on DOB's blog. Those people just suggested (as a counter to my ideas of either trying for Bourn or standing pat and just getting a bench bat and a pen arm) with MELKY CABRERA AND FRENCHY!!!!!! They then used batting avg to back up their case and then jumped my **** when I pointed out that Frenchy's AND Melky's OBP were worse than Mclouths . They wanted Melky in CF and Frenchy in RF with Heyward benched or sent to AAA!!!! WE HAVE THE STUPIDEST FANS IN THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They argued that Bourn would never be traded cuz Houston's going younger. When I pointed out that's exactly why they would move a 28 yr old CF'er who won't be re-signing after 2012. They argued OF COURSE HE WILL BE!!

Melky and Frenchy, and this was more than one person!

[bravos4evr]

Then one guys suggested that we just dump Hudson and lowe cuz they aren't worth the $$$. i explained that MLB contracts are guaranteed, he responded, with "well at least they wouldn't be pitching for us"

Wow, you never know how good you have it sometimes...........



ANYWAY...... yeah, i don't wanna lose them both either. I think my kemp man crush has got a holt off me! :-)

[Garydee]

I don't kno why I waste my time on DOB's blog. Those people just suggested (as a counter to my ideas of either trying for Bourn or standing pat and just getting a bench bat and a pen arm) with MELKY CABRERA AND FRENCHY!!!!!! They then used batting avg to back up their case and then jumped my **** when I pointed out that Frenchy's AND Melky's OBP were worse than Mclouths . They wanted Melky in CF and Frenchy in RF with Heyward benched or sent to AAA!!!! WE HAVE THE STUPIDEST FANS IN THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They argued that Bourn would never be traded cuz Houston's going younger. When I pointed out that's exactly why they would move a 28 yr old CF'er who won't be re-signing after 2012. They argued OF COURSE HE WILL BE!!

Melky and Frenchy, and this was more than one person!

Yeah, I've learned to stay away from DOB's blog. It's pretty insane over there. Talking Chop is better, but not by much. I saw a post on TC that suggested that we replace Gonzo right now by bringing up Pastornicky from AA ball. :rolleyes:

[Freddy_Ballgame]

.......If you trade Jurrjens, you get yourself an impact guy while losing an impact guy in your rotation. It's just a matter of how much you value Jurrjens and if there's anyone you'd be willing to trade him for.


THIS is what I was trying to get across! Value for value.
Thank you!

:thumbsup: